If you're not going to make a super HD game, why would you not want to fully code a game?

because the point is to build a game, not necessarily write code.

sounds like you feel that coding is the point. its not. coding is just a means to the end, which is to build a game.

So, is coding dying? Is it pointless to code now?

no. the things one can do without coding is limited.

Is Unity a Game Maker?

yes and no.

its a collection of libraries and tools that provide all the capabilities of a game maker, with the flexibility of libraries. so you can use just the bits you need to build a wider variety of games, as opposed to one basic type of game with different content. although i don't use it myself, i'd imagine it has the capability to drag and drop together a basic shooter level and run it, by simply using the tools and with no coding.

I hope it's not just me that is against these programs.

probably what it is, is that you tend to enjoy coding, perhaps more than making games per se, and so the lack of "real game development" (IE coding) involved using a "game maker" or "engine" is distasteful to you. if such is the case, you may have a bright future as a coder, but may not enjoy other aspects of game development as much.

i suffer from this myself. right now i should be making weapon models in TrueSpace, instead i'm thinking about component-entity systems and L2 cache friendly data organization. why? 'cause its more fun! <g>.

Thank you for an actual answer. You know, that might be what it is. I've been looking into making general programs and not just games, and that seems to be a lot of fun(I found 1 maker(PyQT) and that kind of got on my nerves, but PyGTK, Tkinter, etc are all awesome).

I tend to only stick with something for about 6 months, then get bored of it and leave it, but with coding I still get the same thrill doing it as I did when I started 3 years ago.

So thank you for a serious answer.

Just FYI: The only game's I've played are Mr. BallGuy, my own game. Minecraft, PE & Xbox, and CubeWorld. These I know were coded. CubeWorld was C++ I believe. There were a few for the GameCube I think I've played, but I can't remember what they were.

Some people got interested in coding from GameMaker??? I've shown it to 10 people, and they give up coding because it's boring and GameMaker is fun. They haven't wrote a single line of code since. That's maybe part of the reason I'm against it. One of the people I was working on a game with, and he didn't want to code anymore and left. If it get's someone interested, that's good. If it makes them give up code, then it's not so good. If they use it to get started then that's, as someone said, superb.

And all the people going on about UnrealEngine and UDK, I said not counting those. They are used to make High Quality games, and I understand why companies use them.

I had another friend who I was telling about code, and she was learning Python. Then she discovered Scratch and didn't want to code. I guess I must just take a big interest in code.

Yes, the fun part about coding. I don't just make games, as I said earlier, I'm experimenting with other types of apps and having a ton of fun with it.

I'd also like to say that from the sounds of it some people are saying that engines are these "tools". What about jMonkeyEngine? It's an engine, and it's code. You can use it to make really good 3D games.

I understand these tools are timesavers, but that's what I don't like. It sounds strange, but it's a good way to describe how I feel.

I have used these tools. I've even used UDK, and I must say it was the most boring thing I've ever done. I didn't find it fun at all. Some were even hard to use(UDK, I'm looking at you).

Maybe for some people the end goal is to make a game, but for me that's just a bonus. While coding, I've learned more about code, and therefore I can use that to make a better game the next time I make one. The end goal for me isn't to make a game, it's to have fun. That's what coding for me is all about: fun.

I make a player animated in Scratch, and it took about 30 minutes. It took me about 10 lines of code to do it in LÖVE, which took about 10 minutes. Maybe this is because I was familiar with LÖVE and not Scratch, but before I got into programming I used Scratch and couldn't use it at all. It was difficult for me to use. I find it easier to code. So for me these tools aren't really time savers.

I want to some day be an indie developer, but I don't want to use one of these "tools" to do it. No one will care, that's correct, as long as it's a fun game, but I'll care. I'll be able to say I did it myself and didn't use an engine to do it. It matters to me if a game is coded or not, because it will impact how much I enjoy the game. I saw my friend play Hotline: Miami, looked it up online and saw it wasn't coded and didn't play it, no matter how many times I was offered to, because it wasn't coded. So it matter's to at least 1 person in the world if a game is coded. You can't please all the people all the time, but I just wan't to say that it matters to some people if a game is coded, as it will impact their experience. I enjoyed Minecraft a lot more because I could play it and think "Mojang have put so much effort into coding all of this, and it's a really awesome game.", but if they had have used a maker(the game may have been better, but...), would there be the ability for mod support? It would have costed more to cover the costs of the engine that they used.

And who says if a game is coded it's not good quality?? CubeWorld was coded, and it's incredible. And it's not even FINISHED yet.

Basically: A game maker is good if it saves time and money, and if it get's someone interested in code it's great. If someone looks into these tools, and finds them better then code and doesn't have a desire to code because these tools exist, then it angers me a lot. For me: Time isn't an issue, I plan on making a game with LibGDX and it wont cost me a thing.

1 note: None of the people that have started to use GameMaker have not(and have told me they will not) use into GML. They are using these tools to avoid code. This is why I am against these tools. I have a friend that I talk to a lot, and he is interested in code because of GameMaker's GML(he never took an interest in the D&D). I have nothing against him for using GameMaker, I'm just happy he got into code

In a job setting, these tools might be(and most likely are) very useful. If you're just an indie/hobbyist, then they really only save time(not so much money, if you're a hobbyist or indie developer). Like I said before, coding is faster for me, it easier for me and it's fun.

Linus Torvalds: Most good programmers do programming not because they expect to get paid or get adulation by the public, but because it is fun to program. This gives me the inspiration to keep programming. Anyone agree with the quote?

EDIT: I tend to not focus on the actual "game" part, and more the programming part. Like I said, making the game is just the outcome of my learning.

There's a distinctive difference between game developer and programmer, and you don't have to be a programmer to be a game developer(although rudimentary knowledge of it is an extremely important asset, IMHO.) You seem to have completely confused game development with programming.

These tools are targeted at game developers who just want to make a game, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with them.

There's also many advantages to using these "game makers", the most obvious ones being they're great time savers and they allow game designers to easily drag and drop a game together which is fantastic because I no longer have to get yelled at for hours to change minor things while I'm in the middle of fixing engine bugs.

However, you seem to think there's a special award you can win for programming your own "game maker"... and you're right! The award you win is knowledge(A winner is you.) But a lot of people don't care how their car was made, and a lot of people don't care how their "game maker" was made. They just want to use the tool to get where they're going, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But you seem convinced that everything has to be done by you, or it's completely moot and doesn't matter... so I guess I'll just end with a quote.

"If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. "

I have very strong feelings for "Game Makers", some of which include "GameMaker", "Scratch", "Construct 2" and "GameSalad". I'm not against all Game Creators, the only 2 I'm not against are "UDK" and "Unreal Engine", because the amount of code involved to make graphics that HD would be phenomenal, so I understand why companies use them.

I am against, however, every other game maker in existence. Yes, I know they are not 100% game makers, but there is little code involved, and that get's on my nerves a lot. What I don't understand is: If you're not going to make a super HD game, why would you not want to fully code a game? Is it due to people being lazy? I know some schools teach Scratch, which I thing is WRONG. It's not good to teach people how to use makers. You should be teaching code. If people want to use game makers, then they shouldn't be making games(again, not including stuff like UDK). I don't see the point in making a game if you're not going to code it. Instead of teaching Scratch, why not teach Python? Instead of teaching GameSalad, teach a better language.

Now, what really get's on my nerves is that people thing they're coding when they are using D&D stuff. There is a place I used to go to called "CoderDojo". They taught GameMaker and AppInventer. Now, how in the WORLD is that coding? You aren't sitting at an IDE and typing code, you're dragging and dropping. They taught Python, but you had to ask and they said "Coding? Why would you want to do that? Are you sure you want to do it?". That made me want to punch someone in the face. The people there that taught Python were planning on teaching C++, and agreed with me that GameMaker is wrong.

I'm going to state my opinion. It might not be right, but I want to express it:

GameMaker, Scratch, and every other game maker(once again, other then UDK and Unreal Engine) should be shut down, along with the companies that develop them. People should not be using little code. They should be using FULL code. The fun part about coding is sitting at an IDE and typing for hours and hours on end. That's what makes programming fun. You should be forced to code. Yes, you can argue you are still "cheating" by letting the language get compiled into Assembly or Binary. You can argue that, but I'm not the one dragging and dropping boxes into a window and clicking on sprites to make a game. In my opinion, the companies should be shut down, along with their engines. I'm not against the people that use them, I'm against the companies that develop them.

I am aware that GameMaker has GME, but who's going to use that when you can D&D?

I also have a few questions. I've seen a lot of people say that coding is dying. It will only be around for a few more years, then everyone will be using D&D programs to make programs. So, is coding dying? Is it pointless to code now? I don't believe it is, but I want to know what's going on here.

My other question is: Is Unity a Game Maker? I believe it uses C# 100%, and you can use Blender to make assets and such. Is Unity 100% code, or is it just another one of those makers?

If someone else has the same opinion(maybe even a stronger one), I'd love to hear it. I hope it's not just me that is against these programs.

I think the more salient question is: why do you care what other people are doing on their own time? Personally I don't like sour cream, but I don't get angry if a stranger orders a burrito with it.

I think the more salient question is: why do you care what other people are doing on their own time? Personally I don't like sour cream, but I don't get angry if a stranger orders a burrito with it.

Because it makes me feel useless when I code. It makes programming seem pointless. It makes me feel as if I've wasted the last 3 years of my life learning to program.

Qt (and PyQT) are fully a programming API. The "maker" that "kind of got on my nerves" was a WYSIWYG interface editor. You still have to write the code behind it to make it actually do anything - the signal and slot connections only hook up interactions. You can't write your logic with the signals and slots.

I think the more salient question is: why do you care what other people are doing on their own time? Personally I don't like sour cream, but I don't get angry if a stranger orders a burrito with it.

Because it makes me feel useless when I code. It makes programming seem pointless. It makes me feel as if I've wasted the last 3 years of my life learning to program.

Okay, this has to be a troll...

The sheer absence of logic and over-the-top arrogance is just too much to believe.