The part of C++ that I feel makes that language shine is it's ability to be a low level, mid level and high level programming language

But we're talking about video games and I don't believe the reason you listed is why it's used in most (maybe just most AAA) video games. I was trying to list why most video games use it.

However, start talking about business logic with Apache Hadoop, Oracle Weblogic, IBM Websphere, what ever SAP uses, or the Android SDK, and you pretty much talking about Java.

I think business uses Java because

A) It came first as the write once run everywhere, which is what all these businesses were looking for, so when they got it they all jumped on it

B) It actually directly supports other OS's where MS doesn't directly write it's VM for other OS's (which I think they are missing the mark on personally)

The company I work for favors .NET but we have many of the apps that you speak of. I don't mind the Java language but I think the slow startup for Java just kills it for me. That's just my opinion through my experience though.

Why do you presume I was talking about you?

My statement stands: most people who like C++ don't know any better.

There are occasional people who like C++ and do have wide experience, which is fine. Some people also like having hot wax poured on their genitals. To each his own, but don't ask me to participate with a smile on my face ;-)

Your statement does not stand, and is extremely judgemental. C++ is a great language with many strengths that make it a great choice (and sometimes the best choice) for a wide variety of projects, and there are many great programmers who enjoy using it, some of which I work with every day. Of course it has weaknesses too, but so does everything man-made. You can say the reason I like C++ is because I don't know it, and I'd respond by saying the more I learn about C++, the more I do like it. And no, I don't like having hot wax poured on my genitals .

People who like C++ typically are the ones lacking experience in other languages and development paradigms.

Translation: "It is a fact that what I don't like is terrible, and everyone who likes what I don't like is stupid".

But we're talking about video games and I don't believe the reason you listed is why it's used in most (maybe just most AAA) video games. I was trying to list why most video games use it.

I listed the reasons that seem irrelevant because games are being developed with far more complex mobile paradigms than they did in the past. Greater mobility requires complex networking and database accessing strategies. In addition, greater mobility also accounts for an array of hardware/OS platform requirements to design on. Now, judgement the factor of a greater need for security, and a insane amount of recreating the wheal for several different hardware/OS platforms, and you have a huge gap in liability and practicality. But that's just my honest opinion.

The company I work for favors .NET but we have many of the apps that you speak of. I don't mind the Java language but I think the slow startup for Java just kills it for me. That's just my opinion through my experience though.

Ditto. I won't hesitate to admit that Java has its weaknesses. What frustrates me is, weaknesses can be overcome, yet their is just not enough marketing power backing up Java in the areas where it could greatly enhance its 3D and game based frameworks. Yet, Java's strengths are without a doubt what the mobile entertainment industry needs and is looking for. It's plainly a double edged sword.

You saying that c++ is used by those who don't know any better sounds like either you've never used the language or you couldn't learn it or you were looking for something easier.

C++ is without a doubt a great language. My problem is not with this great language. It's the human factor and a lack of reliable frameworks used for secure networking and database accessing. Making a great AAA game that's fast, fun, graphically and audibly awesome is great. Making no money off of it because of database injections and piracy due to mixing low level and high level paradigms is not.

Which is precisely what we are saying when individuals inside the C++ box can't think outside of it, and for reasons that would otherwise benefit them.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I speak in generalities, not universal truths, and I would hope you'd be attentive enough to notice that. I'm not saying anything about "everyone" I'm saying that there is a definitive trend. Which means there will be exceptions.

I also never said C++ wasn't the best available choice for some applications. I just happen to think that that's a damned shame.

I concur.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

I speak in generalities, not universal truths, and I would hope you'd be attentive enough to notice that. I'm not saying anything about "everyone" I'm saying that there is a definitive trend. Which means there will be exceptions.

I also never said C++ wasn't the best available choice for some applications. I just happen to think that that's a damned shame.

What is this "trend" you speak of? Do you have data or a study to back up your claims that the majority of C++ developers are inexperienced, closed minded people who dont know any better? If you want to talk about trends that's fine but you have to provide some proof that there IS a trend. You have not spoken in anything but personal opinions. Which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But there is no trend. Simply by stating that your words represent a general truth or a "trend" about C++ developers is proof that what I said is correct: you believe your own personal opinions and biases to be fact. They aren't. This will be my last post on the matter, so enjoy the last word.

After 2 years of consecutive C++ the other languages (except ASM) are extremely easy to understand.
So go with C++.

... and it'll only be another 8 years or so, until you start to understand C++!

I learned C++ in under 2 years, and it was my first programming language

Heh, how much do you really know it, though? I use C++ and have for about a decade, but on a general scale of knowledge of C++, there are still corners I rarely touch.