(I do actually intend to have at least some of that "extended environment" that you mention: high windows in a tower, vantage points in ruins, and so on; on top of a sense of location (and, hopefully, aesthetic appeal) these might provide additional opportunities for discovery of new locations.)
Combining the above with the way you described implementing nodes and I think you are well on your way to a very interesting overworld.
Perhaps, perhaps... Maybe in-level vantages will indeed provide enough of that element of discovery; if so, then I can work with a sparse node-based overworld, with each standing for a broad region rather than steps along the way as in Myst, and serving primarily for that sense of a wider world; I might have brief travel cutscenes between nodes (I intend to use graphic-novel cutscenes, both for aesthetic and for content-creation reasons).
(I'm tending towards a sparse network of nodes over a dense one simply to reduce the content-creation that the overworld incurs.)
Is the idea something like that you get a 360 degree vantage at each overworld node, and then clicking on the things you can see... adds that node to your map? That sounds pretty fun, actually. Like I would see a tower off in the distance, and click on it, and on my map a tower symbol would pop up with "???" or "Unknown Tower". Maybe I can't go there right away, but it gives me something to head towards. (Maybe there's even a bystander that can say what I'm looking at, according to the local knowledge. "We call that the Godladder. Local legend says that..." And for distant things or mysterious places, you get a mixture of truth and rumor, different from each vantage point.)
If you want to limit your potential workload, you could say that you're looking at the world through a telescopic device, and only some places in the world have them. (Cities, towers, hermitages, a few mountain peaks, etc.) Their presence could be the constraint on level access: some of them could be absent, or missing pieces, and your questing completes them and thus opens up new vistas and places to go.
(It would be cool if you needed to see something from at least two vantages to triangulate where it is. When you only have one vantage on it, you can only know its direction; once you have two you can calculate its position. Like that one puzzle in Fate of Atlantis.)
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Btw, just as random mapspiration, no map gets my imagination going like the Tabula Peutingeriana (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/50/TabulaPeutingeriana.jpg). It's just at that perfect sweet spot between extreme practical detail and wild distortion. I always thought it'd make an interesting game to have a old, distorted map of your world and slowly discover where (and what) the mentioned places really were. You know you want to go to the Sorceror's Tower in the East, but what you have to start with is a scholar's best guess based on the compilation of travelers' itineraries and histories.
Is the idea something like that you get a 360 degree vantage at each overworld node, and then clicking on the things you can see... adds that node to your map? That sounds pretty fun, actually.
I'm glad of it! ^_^
What I have in mind would probably be a little simpler--there would be only a few actual overworld nodes, and while clicking on new locations would likely add them to your map, in many cases going to them would likely result in going to a level rather than a new node, although there would likely be some such.
And for distant things or mysterious places, you get a mixture of truth and rumor, different from each vantage point.
This would actually fit fairly well, I think, since I already have it in mind to have cases in which one has to find clues in order to open up new locations.
In fact, riffing on that, I have the idea of having directions sometimes be given relative to landmarks, which the player can ask after. In the overworld node, the player then has a list of geographical clues, and can attempt to match them to visible locations by dragging and dropping them onto the scene. If correct, that landmark becomes named for the player, and can be used to match further clues for other locations, potentially include some that are out of sight.
If you want to limit your potential workload, you could say that you're looking at the world through a telescopic device, and only some places in the world have them.
Hmm... I like that idea, but I think that I'd prefer to keep it for one or two instances, in which case there might be some adventure-game-style dealings involved in gaining access to the telescopic/scrying crystal/whatever.
Btw, just as random mapspiration, no map gets my imagination going like the Tabula Peutingeriana
Large image warning? :P
More seriously, that's another good idea, although not quite in line with what I have in mind, I think. I do think that it could make for quite an interesting game, however. ^_^
For one, do you think that the fade would reduce the break in immersion, given that in either case I'd presumably want to show a UI by which to give the player the option to either travel on or stay in the vicinity?
I had thought that the letterboxing would help with the immersion issue, and imagine actually fading in of the map as the player continued moving forward in order to sort of create consent to travel without having to ask. Another approach would be to have the player automatically take out a map and bring it up to the view as the player moved into the transition boundary.
But I wouldn't overthink immersion. Even minecraft is reported to be immersive. The brain's good at suspending disbelief when it wants to.
I had thought that the letterboxing would help with the immersion issue ...
Fair enough; I could see that being the case, although I'll admit that I'm not entirely sold.
... and imagine actually fading in of the map as the player continued moving forward in order to sort of create consent to travel without having to ask. Another approach would be to have the player automatically take out a map and bring it up to the view as the player moved into the transition boundary.
Those are good ideas, I think--I can see them working rather well. Thank you!
But I wouldn't overthink immersion. Even minecraft is reported to be immersive. The brain's good at suspending disbelief when it wants to.
True, but sudden breaks in the scenario--as in hitting an invisible wall or having a GUI pop up--can jar immersion, I feel. (That said, your suggestions just above should deal with that.)
For the moment I'm creating a prototype of the node-based system described in the few posts just above yours, but I intend to keep your suggestions in mind; even if I don't end up using a level-like overworld they may yet come in handy for transitions from level to overworld.
In fact, riffing on that, I have the idea of having directions sometimes be given relative to landmarks, which the player can ask after. In the overworld node, the player then has a list of geographical clues, and can attempt to match them to visible locations by dragging and dropping them onto the scene. If correct, that landmark becomes named for the player, and can be used to match further clues for other locations, potentially include some that are out of sight.
Riffing further on geographical logic puzzles and talking to locals, give this a try: Manam. It's a language/geography puzzle we made, that was later adapted into a live-action puzzle game by some of our colleagues.
SPOILER: [The compass rose and grid organization are red herrings. Midway through, the assumption that the directions mean N/S/E/W become untenable, and you have to re-evaluate. They actually mean upland/seaward/clockwise/counterclockwise, since these are the directions most relevant to life on a volcanic cone. Likewise, river people often do "upriver/downriver" as their basic directions regardless of what cardinal direction the river flows.]
Something involving special directions would make a neat "advanced" geographical puzzle in a fantasy world. I can picture a society living near a monument of great power, like an evil sorceror's tower or a monster gate, using a similar system: [sun-schmun, what's relevant to them is the direction the monsters come from!]
In any case, it would make things a little more atmospheric if geographic descriptions in "overhead" terms (degrees, north/south, etc.) were mostly available if you were talking to scholars, generals, and other people who have seen and understood maps, but peasants, laborers, etc. give you directions from an "on the ground" vantage point (sunrise/sunset, upriver/downriver, to the left of, etc.)
Riffing further on geographical logic puzzles and talking to locals, give this a try: Manam. ...
Interesting... It's probably a little too heavy on pencil-and-paper work for the game that I have in mind, but it's an interesting puzzle nevertheless. (I'll confess that I read the spoiler due to time constraints.)
In any case, it would make things a little more atmospheric if geographic descriptions in "overhead" terms (degrees, north/south, etc.) were mostly available if you were talking to scholars, generals, and other people who have seen and understood maps, but peasants, laborers, etc. give you directions from an "on the ground" vantage point (sunrise/sunset, upriver/downriver, to the left of, etc.)
That's a decent point of characterisation; thank you. ^_^
