Here is a old game idea I had some time ago, where I challanged myself to design a fast multiplay action game that blends the FPS and RTS genres... This isn''t basied on anything one could remotely consider "realistic"...as I''m rather sick of all the army and special forces type games out there now (and soon to be released)...so this is more fantasy basied...think of the ''alien war'' dream scenes in the Final Fantasy film...and you''ll sort of get an idea of how the units look and such... here goes: The basic idea is to force both play types (FPS/RTS) to depend on each other...that is if the FPS players disreguard orders then their team may very well lose the battle...and if the RTS player doesn''t just order the FPS players around but also fails to reward them, the team could lose just as easily... The goal of the game is to simply destroy the other sides "brain" Eash side (or team) is comprised of 1 "brain" (the RTS player) and a number of "units" (the FPS players)...the only "resource" in the game (a staple of RTS games) are "points" which are used in the following manner: for the "brain" he can purchase "tech upgrades" (see "tech" below) or "power-ups" to be placed on the map...as well as convert points into "health" to restore himself for the "units"...they can only use "points" when they respawn after dying...that is they are given choices for up-grades basied on the teams current technology tree (deturmined by purchases the "brain" player makes)...if they no longer have enough points to enter back into the game it''s basicly "game over" for them How points are accumulated: When each of the "units" kill an opposing side''s "unit" or "brain" only they (the unit performing the kill) will get 3 points...however if the correct conditions are met there can be a number of modifiers added to that... If the "unit" is within his "waypoint"(more on this later) he will get a X3 multiplyer (or 9 points) AND his teams "brain" will recive this also (this is the only way the "brain" recieves points..if the "unit" is within the waypoint)... If the "unit" is withing his "waypoint" and the enemy "unit" destroyied had the "target" status (more on this later)...there will be an additional X3 multiplyer...so both the "unit" and "brain" will recive 27 points... "waypoints" and "target" status: These are set by the "brain" player dynamicly within the game...basicly the "brain" will select a "unit" from his same team and then click the location on the map he wishes the "unit" to move to (just like a RTS)...this location then becomes the selected "unit" waypoint (the "brain" can select more then one unit at a time and then each of those units will be given the same waypoint location)...basicly the waypoint acts as a sphere (the HUD of the individual "unit" will display the waypoint location as well as inform them if they are within the waypoint boundries)...the "target" is simply a chosen enemy "unit" (it can NOT be the enemy brain)...the brain sets the "target" simply by clicking on the enemy unit...note there is only one "target" at any given time per team...that is when a "unit" is selected for "target" status, the previously "targeted" unit is now "normal"... This basicly forces the players to work as a team...the "unit" players get points for each kill...but by being inside thier "waypoint" they get even more, in addition to the "brain" recieveing points....and if the brain doesn''t get any points then the units can never advance thier "tech" standing Tech: This is baised on "rock, paper, scissors"..that is there are three areas that the brain can develop the tech along (I''ll call then Red, Blue, and Green for now)...this next bit is key...Red will always beat Blue yet loses to Green...Blue beats Green but loses to Red...and Green beats red but loses to blue...This is important because it needs to be very clear for the brain to figure out what areas he is weak in...anymore then these three color coded areas and it would become very difficult to figure out where the team stands (am I even?, am I behind?, am I ahead?)... That said, to advance a tech level the "brain" simply choses one of the three colors...the cost depends on the current level standing...only a increase of one level can be done at a time...so to increase Red from say level 7 to level 8 will cost the "brain" 8 points...to go from level 32 to 33 costs 33 points, etc.. How this effects the units is that at respawn the units can purchase (useing thier points) the upgrades to be applied baised on the current team tech standings (the levels of Red, Green and Blue) and place them into three "slots"...weapon, armor, and manuverability...each of these "slots" contains a Red, Green and Blue catagory...and the weapon, armor, and manuverability will change accordingly (I don''t have this part worked out completely)...that is, if a player choses to allocate a bunch of points on increaseing the red componet of his weapon...but then fires on an enemy unit with a high level of green in its armor rateing (useing the above rock paper scissors aproch) the weapon will yield very little damage...and thus a change may need to be made by the brain to increase the team blue tech level to gain an advantage...the idea is to both allow the unit players to chose what advancements they may need (again given the team tech level standings) and somewhat "hide" the tech level standings from the enemy brain (by fooling the enemy to think that your team is strongest in green (by allocateing a lot of green to each "slot") but in reality the brain is advanceing the blue level the most...if that makes any sense) There are some other things involved (picking up and carrying the "brain" around, power-ups, etc).....but the goal for me was to design a very fast playing game, with a simple rule structure Well thats a basic description, what do you think?

The "brain" itself cannot move/attack or whatever...it is basicly something of a ''icon''...the "brain" player has a overhead(disembodied?) view of the whole game..no ''fog of war'' stuff...he/she can look around freely.

When the "brain" grants a "unit" with a power-up it appears in the "waypoint" for that unit...at that time anybody can get it (even the same side)...so if the particular "unit" doesn''t obtain it...well who''s fault is that?

The way I visualize the game it is played on a open landscape (no buildings or other such structures)...basied on a dynamic hieght map..."units" weapons can effect the landscape...fire into the ground and you will either create a sink hole, or the land will rise up and form a mound...this way the land itself can change for increased stratigy (while still allowing the "brains" to clearly see what is happening without haveing some complex ''viewpoint'' problems that would happen with interior spaces)...this all depends on the weapon being used...additionaly the weapon may effect the ''land type'' for the particular area being hit (one player creates a series of sinkholes...while another blasts at them createing lava pits, etc..)

I think it would be important to make the game rules support team play...then the actual gameplay experience would depend on how well players work with each other given the overall situation...

There could be a series of automaticly updated stats for the players...this would allow them to be guaged on how well they support each other and so forth...much of this can be done through run-time data collection (percent of time a "unit" player spends at his "waypoint" modifed by the number of "waypoints" he/she was given during said game...the number of power-ups a "brain" gives on average...stuff like that can be compiled into a statistical data base along with a subjective rateing created by each player after the game(rate how well the "brain" acted, etc..)...all of this could be viewed in the game lobby, so players can form teams and such basied on how well they have performed (and were rated) in the past games they have played...

There is a whole lot more then what I have written..

quote:Original post by RolandofGilead
Create.

Flame me, I love the fire. I lick the flames and they
are sweet like warm chocolate dancing on my tongue.

Liv Tyler makes a really great elf.

Break our molds and shatter our compliant non-existence,
shock the world by removing us from it, if thou wish to
crack the crust the world must be moved and shaken violently
until the core screams ''I yield I yield I yield to your
power!", change the universe by making them realize they are not
the same and the glory shall be great and the price terrible
and all will be silent before a new dawn crashes and drowns
out the old, decadent, and decayed putrified ruins.

C/C++ syntax isn''t confusing. It''s just a bunch of colons,
semicolons, parentheses, brackets, letters, numbers, words,
asterisks, ampresands, carets, forward slashes, double and
single quotes, question marks, percent signs, exclamation
marks, periods, less than signs, greater than signs, equal
signs, curly braces, addition symbols, subtraction symbols,
commas, tildes, maybe some whitespace, and whatever that
symbol is called that''s used in the OR operator. (And
that''s just off the top of my head, didn''t need a book
or nothing.)

Edited by - RolandofGilead on January 1, 2002 5:41:14 AM

Please tell me this isn''t a sig. Please.

Oh and interesting game idea. Reminds me of a game I thought of where there is a Controller class who gives orders to units and set waypoints and status information that filters down the ranks. I gave that up for a much more simplet gameplay mechanism tho, cause I want to make the game for the IGF 2004.

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I think if I were to allow the "brain" to have some limited control over the landscape it would work okay...he/she is going to have thier hands full trying to keep the "units" buisy and such...so if both "units" and "brain" can effect the land scap it would balance things out a bit better, thanks

I also wanted to limit the max players in a game...maybe it could range from as few as 8 on up to 64...I had in mind about 32 players total when I thought of the game idea...games would be hosted on the client side (much like Quake, etc..) and the game lobby (and statistical database) would be a seperate online server to allow player to link up, etc...once a game starts it would be on the clients...with brief updates to the lobby server to inform how things are progressing...

The deformable landscape shouldn''t be much of a bandwidth problem as all deformations would be performed on the individual clients...all that is needed would be the data of where and with what weapon a particular deformation starts...the clients would then change the landscape accordingly...at least I think that should work fairly well....I also think the landscape should ''scroll'' in that it ''repeats''...going off one edge just places you on the opposite side...but done in a seemless way...

I must admit that I''m not much of a programer(altho I know a little)...I would consider myself more of a concept artist/game designer...so I really have no idea on where to start outside of a gamedesign document and concept drawings (I suck at 3D modeling...don''t have the patience for it...give me a pencil and paper any day!)...I also lack the proper PC to run such a game (I''m stuck in the ''stone age'', you could say)

I like your idea

If you can get your hands on it, you should play a few games of Starcraft-Broodwar, I have spent hours evaulating the play balance in that game, and I really must say that I find it incredible. Try something similar, instead of using red/blue/green, use:

Tech/Steel/Bio
Tech: Technologically advanced equipment, e.g. cloaking devices, sniper scopes, target tracking systems, Force Fields

Steel: Power/strength/force, e.g. Guns, explosives, swords, Plate Armour

Bio: Biological enhancements, e.g. Muscle augments, chemical wepaons, bio-cloaking (at very high levels), Chitinous skin

It may be a serious mistake to use a rock/paper/scissors attitude. Constructions of such simplicity do not beget strategy games, because you may fall into ruts easily.

Consider including buildings in your design. Have the brain be dependent on the presence of at least one building. Then have a barracks, where combatants respawn, and defensive buildings which combatants can occupy, and factories to build vehicles, research facilities to gain upgrades, armoury to make weapons, biolab to prepare Bio enhancements.

The map design you''ve been considering is implemented very well in the old game Swiv3D, A wrap-around voxel map. I think that maps should be generated randomly. Besides using points, there should be some rescources of some sort, so that areas of interest are generated, and teams can fight over the ore that makes Steel equipment, or the crystals needed for energy for Tech upgrades. Definitely keep the landscape deformable.

My two cents.

George D. Filiotis
Are you in support of the ban of Dihydrogen Monoxide? You should be!

Um...Chess is a great stratigy game basied off of some very simple rules...and as simple as it is...the ''rock, paper, and sisccors'' approch would work very well, I think....no matter how complex such systems can be made, they can all be abstracted to a base level of understanding that the player needs to interpret as "I''m ahead!","I''m breaking even", and "I''m behind".

I guess the RTS aspect I''m trying to implament is basied more around the tactical squad command of units rather then the resorce management systems used by the majority of RTS games...buildings are out...as well as anything that relates directly to real world military hardware..that game theme has been done to death, IMHO (along with D&D type fantasy settings)...so weapons and such in this game will be a bit fantastical in design and function.

I want to keep it as simple as possable...so there is only one "brain" per side...no hiearchy of command for orders to trickle down through to the grunt level units...it''s just the "brain" and the "units"...which I think will work out fine (I''m a firm believer in the KISS principal).