Quote:Original post by jwalsh Additionally, there is a performance difference between Java and C# (C# is 2 to 6 times faster )and especially between Java and C++ (C++ is generally 10 times faster).
C sharpers are geeting worse and worse everyday! hahahahahahahhahahaha Are on drugs or something?
Quote:Original post by jwalsh Its a managed language and has all the benefits of Java, in addition to which it has really nice reflection, which can be useful for dynamic coding (a replacement for scripting).
Java HAS REFLECTION since day one. You know nothing about Java, could you please study a little, at least to know what you are talking about?
I agree all Aldacron said and some games (one at least) use what he said :
Quote:Original post by Aldacron Java has had access to native memory (i.e. memory outside of the VM managed heap) since Java 1.4 with ByteBuffers. That's what makes the OpenGL bindings usable. Anywhere a C API takes a pointer to an array of floats, ints, or what have you, you can use a ByteBuffer. As to JNI, I don't understand the problem C programmers have with it. It's C, after all. It's a well defined API that isn't that difficult to get up and running with. Besides, with the automation tools available these days you can autogenerate most of what you need.
This game, www.astronoid.net, uses Nebula Device (an native 3d engine) and all network and game programmings are in Java, And the game is good, really.
Just use language you need and you really know : Some C++ application are worse than Java ones and vice versa and this is not language-dependant.
Thanks for that -excelent- post, Aldacron! It cleared up everything for me. You should make an articale out of it.
Looking at this from the bigger perspective I think Aldacron really did hit the nail on the head. It's not about language X versus language Y but its more what you're capable of doing with it.
@ CaptainJester I don't entirely agree with you, this being the wrong board. The huge amount of replies and points of view give me alot of insight. Posting this on javagaming will bring me biased oppinions in favor of Java. On this board it apparantly gave me biased oppinions in favor of C++/C# but i'd rather hear false statements getting un-myth'ed by users such as Aldacron than to hear its an excelent choice and that I couldn't have picked a better language; something i'd image I would've got at javagaming.
Aldacron... excelent! When I first saw this thread I was thinking... ahhh flame war here we go.
In the spirit of a flame war... English is slow and only good for simple tasks. You should use french because it is much faster. But if you want blazing speed use Latin.
(btw english is my primary language and gets the job done)
For what its worth... based purely on the number of "Java for Game Development?" threads over the last week, Java is soon going to claim its title as King of Game Development.
Quote:Original post by smitty1276 For what its worth... based purely on the number of "Java for Game Development?" threads over the last week, Java is soon going to claim its title as King of Game Development.
[lol]
Im just glad to see a (somewhat) civilized discussion on the matter. At the first job I had my boss showed me a program he had written when he was in his 20s. The opcodes were written on paper. He used a hex editor to 'compile' the program.
Quote:Original post by smitty1276 For what its worth... based purely on the number of "Java for Game Development?" threads over the last week, Java is soon going to claim its title as King of Game Development.
I've lost count, but I'm fairly certain I have seen no less than 5 and perhaps as many as 10 threads over the past week discussing Java or C# for game development.
SlimDX | Ventspace Blog | Twitter | Diverse teams make better games. I am currently hiring capable C++ engine developers in Baltimore, MD.
I feel obligated to post one final time on this topic. First of all, Aldacron made a great post. He indeed hit the nail on the head, and for that he gets a rating++ from me. But be careful about dismissing what other people have posted on here. All is relevant, just not posted as eloquently as Aldacron, perhaps.
killingdjef: I'm not fully aware of your background, or your goals for the future, but as Aldacron pointed out, if you're interested in becoming a hobbyist game programmer then definitely use whatever language you're most comfortable using. Indeed, Java is a great language to learn on, and there are many shareware, indie, and commercial (not as much retail) games made in java.
But if your goal is to "get into the industry," then as I posted earlier, do yourself a favor and learn C++. Regardless of who says what about which language, the simple fact of the matter is game companies are not currently hiring Java programmers. They are, however, hiring C++ and C# programmers. This is not a "guess"...this is information obtained by reviewing Gamasutra, Gamedev, Monster, and Gamejobs job postings. Again, if you just want to be a hobbyist, then this is a non-issue.
As Aldacron pointed out, this is largely just a trend. Ten years ago people were not hiring C++ programmers either. Over the next 10 years we're likely to see a shift from C++ to some other language - what that is, no one can say. But if you're interested in getting into the industry "today"...then you'll need to know C++.
And the C++ bias which you've encountered on this forum is not local to this forum. The bias you are experiencing is a pervasive reflection of the culture for which you're getting involved. Similarly, when you go to France you *expect* a bias towards French. Does this mean there are not English, Chinese, Spanish, Italian..etc...speakers in France? No. There are a vast number of languages spoken in France, but as French is the defacto language in France, there is an acceptable and obvious bias towards French.
Another way to look at this is this: You wanted to know "how does java compare to languages like C# and C++ with regards to game development and how widely is it used?" That's like going to France and asking how French compares to Spanish. You will get biased answers because you're IN France.
What's my whole point? You've come to THE #1 resource for game development on the Internet and there's a bias towards C++. That should tell you something in and of itself. Game developers speak C++. Just like the French speak French. You can still get around just fine as an indy or hobbyist developer, but the majority of people in this industry speak C++.
As for Aldacron's comment: "People on these forums tend to give advice from a AAA perspective (particularly those who aren't actually developing any games, AAA or otherwise)."
Be very careful with comments like these. Do not discount people's opinions just because they're "lofty." We get a lot of people on this forum who are going to "...make the next big MMO that will rival World of Warcraft." And they're planning to do it by themselves or with a few friends after school. ;)
But the point is, both people "who aren't actually developing any games" as well as those who ARE actually developing games are both entitled to lofty opinions. So when someone says "If you want to get into the industry, and work for Blizzard you must know C++," don’t assume they're saying that because they DONT work for Blizzard. Every once in a while you'll hear that from someone who IS from Blizzard. And since its impossible to tell without notice who IS from Blizzard and who ISNT, take everyone's advice seriously.
Quote:Original post by killingdjef @ CaptainJester I don't entirely agree with you, this being the wrong board. The huge amount of replies and points of view give me alot of insight. Posting this on javagaming will bring me biased oppinions in favor of Java. On this board it apparantly gave me biased oppinions in favor of C++/C# but i'd rather hear false statements getting un-myth'ed by users such as Aldacron than to hear its an excelent choice and that I couldn't have picked a better language; something i'd image I would've got at javagaming.
You do have a point, but I find there is less bias there than there is here.
Quote:Original post by jwalsh But if your goal is to "get into the industry," then as I posted earlier, do yourself a favor and learn C++. Regardless of who says what about which language, the simple fact of the matter is game companies are not currently hiring Java programmers. They are, however, hiring C++ and C# programmers. This is not a "guess"...this is information obtained by reviewing Gamasutra, Gamedev, Monster, and Gamejobs job postings. Again, if you just want to be a hobbyist, then this is a non-issue.
You are correct. However if you have a portfolio of games in several different languages, you would be a more attractive prospect.
