C++ Workshop - Introduction - CPP Workshop

Jeromy Walsh · 2009-06-20T01:17:02

Greetings All! Here is an update to the C++ Workshop proposal. Thanks to those people who've expressed feedback about the idea. I'm looking forward to seeing how this little project turns out. C++ Workshop Proposal (Start date: June 1, 2006) Note: The following is simply the current incarnation of an idea by JWalsh. There has been no formal approval yet by the staff or moderators of GDNet. Overview: This workshop is designed to aid people in their journey to learn beginning C++. This workshop is targeted at highly motivated individuals who are interested in learning C++ or who have attempted to learn C++ in the past, but found that without sufficient support and mentoring they were unable to connect all the pieces of this highly complex but powerful programming language. This is a 'guided' self-teaching C++ workshop. Each student is responsible for taking the time to read the material and learn the information. The community and tutors that arise out of this workshop are here for making the learning process run more smoothly, but are not obligated to baby-sit a person's progress. Because everyone will be working from the same textbook, students may find it easier to get answers to the specific questions they might have. There is no minimum age requirement, and there is no previous programming experience required. Additionally, this workshop does not attempt to defend C++ as a language, nor does it attempt to demonstrate that C++ is either more or less useful then other programming languages for any particular purpose. People who intend to start a discussion about the differences between C++ and ANY other languages (except as are relevant to a particular discussion), are encouraged to do so elsewhere. This workshop is for educational, not philosophical discussions. "C++ Workshop" Summary: Anyone interested in participating will purchase the official workshop "textbook" (See below), either from Amazon.com, a local bookstore, etc...(No “signup” is necessary) Each week participants are responsible for reading 1 chapter of the book. As people have questions on a chapter they may post them in our weekly chapter threads (see below), to be answered by tutors (see below) and other students. Tutors may post additional questions to help test the students' understanding of the material. Each month there will be a programming project (see below) - designed to test a student's understanding of the previous 4-5 chapters. Students can optionally complete these projects and post a link to their source code for review. Textbooks: After looking at over a dozen textbooks I have chosen "Teach yourself C++ in 21 Days (5th Edition)" as the official textbook for the workshop. The reasons for this are as follows: It covers the majority of relevant C++ topics briefly enough to be an easy learning tool but thoroughly enough to be a useful reference It explains things in an easy to read format by accompanying all concepts with complete example programs, without spanning several pages It answers the majority of beginning C++ questions I see appear on GDNet. All examples include the code listing, output, and an analysis of the code All examples include line numbers for easy reference It includes a brief summary, questions & answers, quizzes, and exercises at the end of every chapter. It's 5 editions have been widely read by many individuals and so it's had a chance to "mature." The easy reference cards on the back and front inside covers are useful reference items It rings up at around $35. Cheaper then "C++ Primer Plus" at around $50.00, and my personal favorite "C++ How to Program" at $99.00. Now that we've chosen a textbook, specifically one with 4 previous editions, there will invariably be questions about needing to purchase the 5th edition of our textbook. Q. I own a physical copy of a previous edition of the book. (likely 3rd or 4th edition) Do I still need to purchase the 5th edition? A. No. It looks like the previous editions are close enough to the current edition (5th edition) that if you've got a physical copy of a previous edition, there probably isn’t a need for purchasing the latest edition, unless you find it necessary as we advance. In general, just keep the edition you've got and see if you can follow along. If you find that you cant follow along or aren’t able to get your questions answered, then it might be best to “upgrade” to the 5th edition. Q. I don’t have a physical copy of “Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days,” but I found that there’s a free version of the 2nd edition online, is that acceptable? A. I'd like to discourage it. Not because the 2nd edition won’t be close enough for you to follow along with, but because there's just no replacement for having a physical copy of a book. It gives you the ability to go sit down and read it, fully absorb yourself in it, and then come to the computer only when necessary for doing exercises. It means you can read it while your friends/wife/parents are driving and you're in the car, you can read it at lunch, on a plane, at the park, while waiting in the dentist office, etc...As well, it comes with nifty reference cards on the inside covers. Finally, having the books means you can prop it on your desk and do the exercises with the book open without having to Alt-Tab back and forth between your compiler and your web browser. In general, a physical book is just an easier way to learn. Q. I don’t have a copy of "Teach Yourself C++ in 21 Days," but I have another textbook that was highly recommended to me and I feel comfortable using that book instead. Is that ok? A. Yes, but there’s a catch. You wont be able to follow along closely with us and we wont be able to answer your C++ questions as effectively. So I encourage you to purchase the textbook. If you don’t, you're still welcome to ask/answer C++ related questions as they relate to the current topics, use our questions as a way to measure your own understanding, and complete our projects as an exercise to help you develop your skills. If your lack of textbook becomes an issue, we'll politely let you know and ask you to either purchase the textbook, or direct your questions to either the "For Beginners" or "General Programming" forums. This workshop is ultimately for people who want to learn together by reading a common textbook and then answering each other's questions. It only stands to reason that if you don’t have the textbook, this might not be the best forum for you. Chapter Threads: There will be a new forum created for the workshop. Each week a thread will be created that covers the current chapter. People can then post their questions and answers for the current chapter in that thread. People who come late to the workshop can read over the previous threads and continue to post their new questions. The weekly chapter thread will be mirrored (and stickied) in "For Beginners." The first post of each weekly thread will be structured with a brief introduction to the workshop, and provide links back to the C++ Workshop Forum and the "Tutors" thread (See below), so that people can easily navigate to us from FB, and follow the conversation of the current week. Project Threads: Threads will be created for each of the "Projects of the Month," where the first post outlines the details and requirements of the project. People can then use those threads to discuss the project, get design ideas, ask questions, and post their links to completed projects. About IDE's: For numerous reasons, Visual C++ EE is the recommended IDE for this workshop. Participants who are already familiar with another IDE, however, are encouraged to use whatever they feel will help them learn most effectively. To keep the workshop moving along, no assistance will be given for installing or configuring any other IDE then Visual C++ EE. Other members of the workshop wishing to submit installation and configuration guides for additional IDE's are welcome to do so. The Future: I can definitely see doing continuing workshops on more advanced topics and other programming languages if this experiment proves successful. Some other obvious topics include: Data Structures The Standard Template Library DirectX OpenGL Mathematics for Computer Graphics (Linear Algebra) Video game Physics Windows Programming (Win32 API or .NET) Shader programming (Pixel/vertex) Skeletal Animation and Modeling Procedural Texturing and materials Network programming Programming languages and translators C++/CLR and the .NET Framework Library And of course a language class can be done for any common language for video games - Java, C#, Python, Lua, ... Cheers! [Edited by - jwalsh on September 28, 2006 11:12:00 AM]

JWalsh

498

Author

May 14, 2006 04:53 PM

To All,

First, let me say thank you for all of your responses. It's a pleasure to see genuine interest in learning to program C++, and in a willingness to help your fellow friends and forum posters.

Let me a address a few of your posts.

Quote:Original post by Alpha_ProgDes:
It sounds like a great idea. Most likely for it to be somewhat coherent and organized the Staff are gonna have to give you your own forum. The Lounge won't cut it, I'm afraid.

That's a great idea. I'm not sure the process of setting that up, however. And then again, this is really for beginners, and I'd be partially afraid it would be missed by those who truly need it if we move it off into another section. Perhaps Fruny and the other moderators can voice their thoughts on that. Ultimately I think this "workshop" should go wherever it will be the most use.

Quote:Original post by Bytecoder:
It seems to me that, if you have to tutor these people, perhaps you should be teaching them a better language than C++? Even in commercial game programming, any programmer worth his salt is going to try and spend as much time /away/ from C++ as possible.

I have my opinions about this, as I'm sure most people do. But I will keep them to myself. It's a very simple matter, really. Myself and anyone who is interested in participating will be donating some of our time to help people learn C++. For those people who feel C++ is not the correct language to be learning, well, don’t follow our workshop. Instead, focus your time learning the language you feel is the best choice for you. Its really not a matter for discussion. Do you walk into your high school, undergraduate, or graduate college courses on Java and tell the teacher they should be teaching Python instead? No. I didn't think so.

Quote:
Original post by Forevernoobie:
I’m interested and I have "C++ For Dummies 5th Edition" but I’m not sure If I fall into the tutor group yet. I just finished reading the book and I’m pretty inexperienced. Maybe I could be a tutor on the early chapters and a student on the later ones?

Alas, the line between student and teacher is never very clear in reality. Help where you feel you can genuinely be helpful, and sit back and learn when you feel you're starting to have to tip-toe to stay above water. [smile]

Quote:
Original post by dbzprogrammer:
I would be interested in helping teach this "course," but could I recommend the book, "Beginning C++ Game Programming." It seems to be much more noob friendly and have an outline of what to do.

Thank you for the suggestion. There seems to be quite a bit of discussion about which is the best(tm) book for the workshop. To be honest with you, I don’t particularly like "C++ for Dummies." I merely suggested it because it progresses very slowly, and the chapters are small - two very good things for a beginning programmer. With that being said, I'm going to evaluate a few books for this course, and then I'll update the post on the top with the "official" book for the workshop. Please, if anyone does have suggestions, feel free to post them here.

I do not, however, want to use a free online book. There are many reasons for this, but I'll just simply say no thanks. So if you know of a good introductory C++ book, that people can pick up at Borders, Barnes and Nobles, Amazon, etc...let me know.

Quote:Original post by dbzprogrammer:
Perhaps two sessions? Those who are new to the language, and then one for those who just need a project to work on the sharpen their newly learned skills?

This too is not a bad idea. Ideally, we might eventually have these "workshops" running for beginning, intermediate, and advanced programmers...and perhaps for C++, C#, Java, Python, Lua, etc...There's no reason more willing individuals out there can't come forward to offer their own "workshops." For me, I've only got enough time to do one. And since I'm most educated in C++ and C#, I'll do C++ for now. As for why I'll do beginners first, well, because its the beginning of the workshop series. [lol]

Quote:Original post by TomX:
This seems a good idea and controversy over which book to use is to be expected. The decision is in the hands of the teacher though.

Indeeeeeed. [smile] I'll take suggestions, but when I pick the "official" book for the workshop, the decision will be made. People wishing to offer their own workshops using a different textbook are welcome to do so, but I'd like to avoid splitting the workshops too thin if it can be avoided. Having a large group to ask questions and get answers from is what makes GD.net such a valuable place to learn.

Thanks again for all of your posts. I'll let everyone know the official textbook when its been decided. Please feel free to post your suggestions in the mean time.

Cheers!

Jeromy Walsh
Sr. Tools & Engine Programmer | Software Engineer
Microsoft Windows Phone Team
Chronicles of Elyria (An In-development MMORPG)
GameDevelopedia.com - Blog & Tutorials
GDNet Mentoring: XNA Workshop | C# Workshop | C++ Workshop
"The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?" - Il Duche, Boondock Saints

ostamo1

128

May 14, 2006 05:07 PM

How about some of the resources at this site

it just may help in the process
http://www.pclx.com/itcc/

ForeverNoobie

134

May 14, 2006 05:16 PM

I know Im kinda rushing things abit but I would love to see one of these workshops for a book like "Core Techniques and Algorithms in Game Programming". The book toches on alot of different topics and leaves plenty of room for disscussion and expansion. I know the beginner workshop must come first though.

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. – Leonardo da Vinci

JWalsh

498

Author

May 14, 2006 05:18 PM

@Noobie: I'm glad to see you're so eager.

Well all, I guess I'm going to head to Borders, B&N, and a few other bookstores in a few minutes to browse the intro C++ books.

Cheers!

Jeromy Walsh
Sr. Tools & Engine Programmer | Software Engineer
Microsoft Windows Phone Team
Chronicles of Elyria (An In-development MMORPG)
GameDevelopedia.com - Blog & Tutorials
GDNet Mentoring: XNA Workshop | C# Workshop | C++ Workshop
"The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as is needed?" - Il Duche, Boondock Saints

LowRad

234

May 14, 2006 05:30 PM

Humm...

This is a great idea :) Maybe this will free up the forums from too much beginners stuff ;) (I'm joking...).

Seriously, maybe i could help a little with teaching / giving explanations about what's in the book or something similar...

Also, i know alot of people thinks that starting with C++/C/Java isnt the best solution. Well, when i started 14years ago i jump right into c++ (just because i didnt know others languages existed ;)). But face the fact, programming isnt about the language its a mentality (a way of thinking), so whatever its C++, VB, C#, ... it'll be hard for anyone to start.

In every languages you have something like functions, methods, variables, (read the basic)... in every OO-languages you will have classes, inherithance, polymorphism,... So is not really about the language but more about what/how the stuff is teached.

Moreover, alot of post in the Beginners forums starts like "I wanna do game, i know that i need to use DX/OpenGL and C++. But i know nothing about c++ someone wanna help me!?". So why not giving to peoples what they want.

If the course are well designed whatever the language teach is C++ or VB or java... every new "noob" ;) will be able to follow... And, since this is aim at beginners i dont see the needs for the more advances concepts of OO and C++ until the last few chapters/tutorials...

Even in school, at least in my university, they start right away with java (they put everything in static methods, so its look like any other procedural language).

So let's do it, alot of new comers are waiting for this !!

Jonathan

Photonman

174

May 14, 2006 05:38 PM

I'd be interested in teaching, and I have (I think) all of the books mentioned so far. My teacher had a few books and we just learned from his "notes" and crossreferences, and from online stuff. I don't think there is a panacea among introductory C++ books. I would think that perhaps with this course, a better teaching book might be developed (copyright pending ;) )

I think having to buy a book would deter membership, although I am aware that few free books are very good. I also think that few books in general are good, and as previously implied, I think that maybe we should follow any books loosely, since they are bound to be inadequate in someone's view.

This raises one question in my mind (at the moment) How are we going to handle the constant influx of new people? Someone might join needing to start at the begining of the course when we've all happily progressed to the third chapter by the time this putative person joins. Or, someone with the basic syntax down might join as we start, and be forced to wait around. Making this a linear course will be difficult. Perhaps we could break it into sections e.g. rare n00b, medium rare n00b, well done n00b, fully cooked n00b, that repeat often so anyone needing to start won't have to wait long for their level to come up?

______________________________Stranger things have happened...The Following Sentence is True. The Above Sentence is False.

LowRad

234

May 14, 2006 05:50 PM

I think Photonman raises interesting points.

That's why i think the concept should be a little more tutorials-oriented. (Sure proving book references, sites references among others thing is a ++++)

Start at the beginning, what's programming, what's needed, how a program looks like... Then, how a language is composed, how a compiler works, the linker, ...

Then looking at documentation, how the documentation works... (If you give people a fish they will eat for a day. Teach people how to fish, they will eat fish for the rest of theirs lives. That's sounded nice, that's why i write i down. ;) ).

Then, giving people basic assigments. This will allow them to put theirs hand in the dirty thing. This will force them to find solution to their problems. One of the hardest issue of programming is to actually code the thing (Wow i got the best idea of the year... humm... how can i do this now...).

Anyhow, great initiative...
Jonathan

bytecoder

100

May 14, 2006 06:11 PM

Quote:
Quote:
It seems to me that, if you have to tutor these people, perhaps you should be teaching them a better language than C++? Even in commercial game programming, any programmer worth his salt is going to try and spend as much time /away/ from C++ as possible.

I have my opinions about this, as I'm sure most people do. But I will keep them to myself. It's a very simple matter, really. Myself and anyone who is interested in participating will be donating some of our time to help people learn C++. For those people who feel C++ is not the correct language to be learning, well, don’t follow our workshop. Instead, focus your time learning the language you feel is the best choice for you. Its really not a matter for discussion. Do you walk into your high school, undergraduate, or graduate college courses on Java and tell the teacher they should be teaching Python instead? No. I didn't think so.

Geez, it was just a suggestion. You guys don't need to jump down my throat for it. Fine, you're dead set on teaching C++, that's great; I was merely offering up a suggestion which, I might add, is directly applicable to the topic at hand. Thank you and good night.

Zahlman

1,682

May 14, 2006 06:22 PM

I'm interested in teaching, but I'm FT employed now and thus would likely only have time on weekends.

superpig

1,826

May 14, 2006 07:25 PM

I'm also interested in teaching. If it's just a matter of setting a bunch of questions to explore the facets of a concept, and answering questions from students (which I do from time to time anyway) then it sounds like a doddle.

Also, I vote against using any of the For Dummies books (like, ever). I read C++ For Dummies back in the day when I was trying to transition from C to C++, and aside from maybe one chapter (about inheritance, demonstrated with kitchen appliances, which made the concept click for me), it was trash.

It shouldn't be too hard to set up a dedicated forum for this...

Richard "Superpig" Fine - saving pigs from untimely fates - Microsoft DirectX MVP 2006/2007/2008/2009
"Shaders are not meant to do everything. Of course you can try to use it for everything, but it's like playing football using cabbage." - MickeyMouse

C++ Workshop - Introduction

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C++ Workshop - Introduction

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