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What do you think about Mideast crisis

Started by
1,520 comments, last by LessBread 17 years, 7 months ago
Quote:Original post by vNistelrooy
Quote:Original post by Alpha_ProgDes
Quote:Original post by vNistelrooy
Fucking shit, Syria were pissing their pants when this started, and now they dare to threaten us. Motherfuckers. Olmert, Haluz and Perez deserve to be shot, this was the most pathetic and amateur military operation Israel has ever carried out. Half of Syria should be bombed into oblivion for each and every threat like that.

LOL. When everyone was telling you that, you pretty much said it was justified and well-deserved. Poor you. In fact, the fact that you even bothered to mention bombing another nation shows you've learned nothing from this particular war and deserve to be with Olmert, Haluz, and Peres.

What? I think that the campaign was justified, all I said was that it was amateurishly executed. Poor you, misunderstood me... [headshake]

[sarcasm] yes, not enouth dead bodies of course. why these morons didn't just carpet-bomb Lebanon, Syria, then Iran, list goes on...
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Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Diodor
Quote:Original post by Lessbread
I wouldn't agree with the hyperbole about undiscovered Amazon tribes (and such a comment smacks of racism actually)


Yeah, it obviously is a gross exaggeration. It accurately describes how a significant minority in Israel feels about this. I disagree about the racism bit - this is strictly about the inadequacy of stone age cultures in the modern world (as the undiscovered bit makes clear). It does smack of the idea that cultures are not equal, but that's just common sense.


It's the kind of comment that leads me to think that the person that thought it up was a pompous asshole. If he wanted to make a stone age comparison, he should have made a stone age comparison. Looking over the exact quote from mererhetoric.com: Seriously, there are undiscovered tribes of pigmies in the Amazon who have never even heard of Israel who could still do a better job as Defense Minister than Amir Peretz. - I think my remark about racism was spot on. In addition to being culturally elitist, he mispelled pygmies (in a way that suggests pigs ie. lower life forms) and misidentified the places that they come from - Africa and Asia not South America. And that is coming from a guy excited to particpate in a conference call with Netanyahu and who carries a Michelle Malkin link on his blogroll...


It's culturally insensitive and in poor taste to mock the technical inferiority of primitive peoples but it's certainly not racist. Racism and cultural elitism are very different issues and trying to equate the two only confuses the issues. Anyway, your psychoanalysis of the author based on his spelling of "pygmy" failed to consider that his mislocation of pygmies in an entirely different continent might be because the comparison isn't racist at all!

----Bart
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Meanwhile, Hezbollah Leads Work to Rebuild, Gaining Stature

Quote:
...
In his victory speech on Monday night, Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, offered money for “decent and suitable furniture” and a year’s rent on a house to any Lebanese who lost his home in the month-long war.
...
Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

“Hezbollah’s strength,” said Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at the Lebanese American University here, who has written extensively about the organization, in large part derives from “the gross vacuum left by the state.”

Hezbollah was not, she said, a state within a state, but rather “a state within a nonstate, actually.”

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.
...



i knew you would post this. but what do you think about it?

surely it would have been an outrage if say the US stepped in only to help the christians there (hint: they are not getting any money from hezbollah). if the US used its filthy oil money (look where all this money is coming from) to win hearts and minds for their dirty millitairistic goals (look how the money is spent)?

i bet you would have had a lot more to say about it if that were the case.


I think Nasrallah's moves are to be expected. He's using the opportunity to increase his support base by extending it beyond the Lebanese Shia community. I think it will be difficult for US money to counter his efforts because Bush sat on his hands while Israel bombed the crap out of Lebanon for weeks and the Lebanese know it and shouldn't have any reason to believe that the US is a friend of Lebanon. I think the appropriation from Congress, if it comes, will come late since it has to wind it's way through a Congress enthralled to Israel and that also means the money will come with all sorts of strings attached. I also think that in the larger picture Israel's war wasn't thought through and has actually made the situation worse.

As for the rest of your diatribe - whatever. Once again you've missed the bigger picture.


said the man who did not even reply to my post.

'are to be expected'. just to be sure: that kind of apologism is all you have to say about the discrimination, millitairism and massive genocidally motivated money flows going on?
Quote:Original post by trzy
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Diodor
Quote:Original post by Lessbread
I wouldn't agree with the hyperbole about undiscovered Amazon tribes (and such a comment smacks of racism actually)


Yeah, it obviously is a gross exaggeration. It accurately describes how a significant minority in Israel feels about this. I disagree about the racism bit - this is strictly about the inadequacy of stone age cultures in the modern world (as the undiscovered bit makes clear). It does smack of the idea that cultures are not equal, but that's just common sense.


It's the kind of comment that leads me to think that the person that thought it up was a pompous asshole. If he wanted to make a stone age comparison, he should have made a stone age comparison. Looking over the exact quote from mererhetoric.com: Seriously, there are undiscovered tribes of pigmies in the Amazon who have never even heard of Israel who could still do a better job as Defense Minister than Amir Peretz. - I think my remark about racism was spot on. In addition to being culturally elitist, he mispelled pygmies (in a way that suggests pigs ie. lower life forms) and misidentified the places that they come from - Africa and Asia not South America. And that is coming from a guy excited to particpate in a conference call with Netanyahu and who carries a Michelle Malkin link on his blogroll...


It's culturally insensitive and in poor taste to mock the technical inferiority of primitive peoples but it's certainly not racist. Racism and cultural elitism are very different issues and trying to equate the two only confuses the issues. Anyway, your psychoanalysis of the author based on his spelling of "pygmy" failed to consider that his mislocation of pygmies in an entirely different continent might be because the comparison isn't racist at all!


primitive?! wat are you thinking you eurocentric racist?
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by trzy
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Diodor
Quote:Original post by Lessbread
I wouldn't agree with the hyperbole about undiscovered Amazon tribes (and such a comment smacks of racism actually)


Yeah, it obviously is a gross exaggeration. It accurately describes how a significant minority in Israel feels about this. I disagree about the racism bit - this is strictly about the inadequacy of stone age cultures in the modern world (as the undiscovered bit makes clear). It does smack of the idea that cultures are not equal, but that's just common sense.


It's the kind of comment that leads me to think that the person that thought it up was a pompous asshole. If he wanted to make a stone age comparison, he should have made a stone age comparison. Looking over the exact quote from mererhetoric.com: Seriously, there are undiscovered tribes of pigmies in the Amazon who have never even heard of Israel who could still do a better job as Defense Minister than Amir Peretz. - I think my remark about racism was spot on. In addition to being culturally elitist, he mispelled pygmies (in a way that suggests pigs ie. lower life forms) and misidentified the places that they come from - Africa and Asia not South America. And that is coming from a guy excited to particpate in a conference call with Netanyahu and who carries a Michelle Malkin link on his blogroll...


It's culturally insensitive and in poor taste to mock the technical inferiority of primitive peoples but it's certainly not racist. Racism and cultural elitism are very different issues and trying to equate the two only confuses the issues. Anyway, your psychoanalysis of the author based on his spelling of "pygmy" failed to consider that his mislocation of pygmies in an entirely different continent might be because the comparison isn't racist at all!


primitive?! wat are you thinking you eurocentric racist?



Err, right, what I meant to say is highly advanced but different and therefore misunderstood societies. All joking aside, I actually have no beef with those people and would like to see their societies preserved with an absolute minimum of intervention from the outside. That means no missionaries, no scientists, and no doctors.
----Bart
Quote:Original post by trzy
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Diodor
Quote:Original post by Lessbread
I wouldn't agree with the hyperbole about undiscovered Amazon tribes (and such a comment smacks of racism actually)


Yeah, it obviously is a gross exaggeration. It accurately describes how a significant minority in Israel feels about this. I disagree about the racism bit - this is strictly about the inadequacy of stone age cultures in the modern world (as the undiscovered bit makes clear). It does smack of the idea that cultures are not equal, but that's just common sense.


It's the kind of comment that leads me to think that the person that thought it up was a pompous asshole. If he wanted to make a stone age comparison, he should have made a stone age comparison. Looking over the exact quote from mererhetoric.com: Seriously, there are undiscovered tribes of pigmies in the Amazon who have never even heard of Israel who could still do a better job as Defense Minister than Amir Peretz. - I think my remark about racism was spot on. In addition to being culturally elitist, he mispelled pygmies (in a way that suggests pigs ie. lower life forms) and misidentified the places that they come from - Africa and Asia not South America. And that is coming from a guy excited to particpate in a conference call with Netanyahu and who carries a Michelle Malkin link on his blogroll...


It's culturally insensitive and in poor taste to mock the technical inferiority of primitive peoples but it's certainly not racist. Racism and cultural elitism are very different issues and trying to equate the two only confuses the issues. Anyway, your psychoanalysis of the author based on his spelling of "pygmy" failed to consider that his mislocation of pygmies in an entirely different continent might be because the comparison isn't racist at all!


Commenting on what he wrote does not consitute psychoanalysis and that suggestion is absurd. I said nothing about how his misadventures in potty training let to the formation of his authoritarian personality or any such thing. The guy proclaims himself to be a phd candidate studying rhetoric at USC. He should know how to spell or at least know how to use a spell checker. That he mislocates pygmies doesn't tell me that the comparison wasn't racist, it tells me that he has a low estimation of pygmies and couldn't be bothered to do even the least bit of research on them. Thirty years ago he would have been making comparisons with pickaninnies or worse.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote:Original post by trzy
Err, right, what I meant to say is highly advanced but different and therefore misunderstood societies. All joking aside, I actually have no beef with those people and would like to see their societies preserved with an absolute minimum of intervention from the outside. That means no missionaries, no scientists, and no doctors.


a sidetrack, i know, but personally i think those people can decide for themselves what they do with their culture. if they want doctors and refridgerators, good for them. you can expect there are going to be a person or two who prefer that over being someone elses living museum piece. anyone who really cares about the preservation of culture can put his word where his mouth is and donn a viking helmet and go freeze his ass off in a fjord any day of the week.
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Meanwhile, Hezbollah Leads Work to Rebuild, Gaining Stature

Quote:
...
In his victory speech on Monday night, Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, offered money for “decent and suitable furniture” and a year’s rent on a house to any Lebanese who lost his home in the month-long war.
...
Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

“Hezbollah’s strength,” said Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at the Lebanese American University here, who has written extensively about the organization, in large part derives from “the gross vacuum left by the state.”

Hezbollah was not, she said, a state within a state, but rather “a state within a nonstate, actually.”

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.
...



i knew you would post this. but what do you think about it?

surely it would have been an outrage if say the US stepped in only to help the christians there (hint: they are not getting any money from hezbollah). if the US used its filthy oil money (look where all this money is coming from) to win hearts and minds for their dirty millitairistic goals (look how the money is spent)?

i bet you would have had a lot more to say about it if that were the case.


I think Nasrallah's moves are to be expected. He's using the opportunity to increase his support base by extending it beyond the Lebanese Shia community. I think it will be difficult for US money to counter his efforts because Bush sat on his hands while Israel bombed the crap out of Lebanon for weeks and the Lebanese know it and shouldn't have any reason to believe that the US is a friend of Lebanon. I think the appropriation from Congress, if it comes, will come late since it has to wind it's way through a Congress enthralled to Israel and that also means the money will come with all sorts of strings attached. I also think that in the larger picture Israel's war wasn't thought through and has actually made the situation worse.

As for the rest of your diatribe - whatever. Once again you've missed the bigger picture.


said the man who did not even reply to my post.

'are to be expected'. just to be sure: that kind of apologism is all you have to say about the discrimination, millitairism and massive genocidally motivated money flows going on?


I responded to your question regarding what I thought about the situation. In my view Nasrallah is behaving like any political opportunist would. I didn't respond to the rest of your trolling for obvious reasons.


"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by LessBread
Meanwhile, Hezbollah Leads Work to Rebuild, Gaining Stature

Quote:
...
In his victory speech on Monday night, Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, offered money for “decent and suitable furniture” and a year’s rent on a house to any Lebanese who lost his home in the month-long war.
...
Hezbollah’s reputation as an efficient grass-roots social service network — as opposed to the Lebanese government, regarded by many here as sleek men in suits doing well — was in evidence everywhere. Young men with walkie-talkies and clipboards were in the battered Shiite neighborhoods on the southern edge of Bint Jbail, taking notes on the extent of the damage.

“Hezbollah’s strength,” said Amal Saad-Ghorayeb, a professor at the Lebanese American University here, who has written extensively about the organization, in large part derives from “the gross vacuum left by the state.”

Hezbollah was not, she said, a state within a state, but rather “a state within a nonstate, actually.”

Sheik Nasrallah said in his speech that “the brothers in the towns and villages will turn to those whose homes are badly damaged and help rebuild them.
...



i knew you would post this. but what do you think about it?

surely it would have been an outrage if say the US stepped in only to help the christians there (hint: they are not getting any money from hezbollah). if the US used its filthy oil money (look where all this money is coming from) to win hearts and minds for their dirty millitairistic goals (look how the money is spent)?

i bet you would have had a lot more to say about it if that were the case.


I think Nasrallah's moves are to be expected. He's using the opportunity to increase his support base by extending it beyond the Lebanese Shia community. I think it will be difficult for US money to counter his efforts because Bush sat on his hands while Israel bombed the crap out of Lebanon for weeks and the Lebanese know it and shouldn't have any reason to believe that the US is a friend of Lebanon. I think the appropriation from Congress, if it comes, will come late since it has to wind it's way through a Congress enthralled to Israel and that also means the money will come with all sorts of strings attached. I also think that in the larger picture Israel's war wasn't thought through and has actually made the situation worse.

As for the rest of your diatribe - whatever. Once again you've missed the bigger picture.


said the man who did not even reply to my post.

'are to be expected'. just to be sure: that kind of apologism is all you have to say about the discrimination, millitairism and massive genocidally motivated money flows going on?


I responded to your question regarding what I thought about the situation. In my view Nasrallah is behaving like any political opportunist would.

its inevitable, i see... thats not the idealism im used to from you less.

you kept your analysis of the situation a little dry aswell. let me make it explicit: its your moral/ethical analysis i was interested in.
Quote:
I didn't respond to the rest of your trolling for obvious reasons.

i dont know if every provocative post falls under the definition of trolling, but if so, ill wear the label proudly here.
Quote:Original post by Eelco
Quote:Original post by trzy
Err, right, what I meant to say is highly advanced but different and therefore misunderstood societies. All joking aside, I actually have no beef with those people and would like to see their societies preserved with an absolute minimum of intervention from the outside. That means no missionaries, no scientists, and no doctors.


a sidetrack, i know, but personally i think those people can decide for themselves what they do with their culture. if they want doctors and refridgerators, good for them. you can expect there are going to be a person or two who prefer that over being someone elses living museum piece. anyone who really cares about the preservation of culture can put his word where his mouth is and donn a viking helmet and go freeze his ass off in a fjord any day of the week.


It's true that working for cultural preservation is rather selfish on our part, as if we want to be amused by these people, but OTOH, true cultural preservation would mean a real lack of contact (hence my "no scientists" comment.)

I agree that should these people want to join modern society, they should be welcomed and helped in their transition, but they should take the first steps to signal that desire rather than having us descend upon them from the outside. Even for them, the world is a much smaller place and there's no reason for us to offer them modernity until they start wondering about it, IMHO.
----Bart

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