Don't look at it as a a toaster. It's a product with a randomly generated name which enhances one of several base food products by using a technique that was discovered and given another random name. The result of this product is a new food product with another randomly generated name.
At least such would be my basis on how to evolve technology from scratch. For example:
Raw material + process1 = product.
Product 1 + product 2 = product3
Product 1 + process 2 = product 4
Product 1 + process 2 + product 5 = product 6
The purpose of a product (food, entertainment, whatever) would depend on the intent of the inventor to focus on fulfilling a particular need. NPC needs that can be fulfilled would have to be determined by you. As for how to graphicly represent each product, I have no idea. And you'll probably never get something that's the equivilant of a toaster.
Evolving cities (industry, specifically)
hate to break it to you guys... but...
do a fast mathematical operation and find out how much cpu time this procedural dohickie would use... trust me... you'll need a little more than a quad-core cpu to run this.
just think at oblivion with all it's fancy radiantAI ... that's just a rudimentary simulation of life ... and it uses a LOT of cpu time... multiply that with 20 and you will get what you will need for this project to run
as for how you generate the tiny details...
well .. procedurally of course...
give people a blueprint of a building and select which parts of it can be modified by them (by people i mean npc's)
i did something close to this a while ago.. but no fancy graphics... just a console output log...
tried to implement simple 2d graphics, but i hadn't quite designed it to go with graphics so i should have changed the program architecture to cope... and i got bored...
but the concept was simple.
give people rules and the ability to learn.
i'll see if i can still find the source and if i do i'll upload it... but considering my limited backup skill... think it's been long gone.
edit: if i don't find the source i'll try to find the design document... that's printed so it's gotta be intact.. i hope
do a fast mathematical operation and find out how much cpu time this procedural dohickie would use... trust me... you'll need a little more than a quad-core cpu to run this.
just think at oblivion with all it's fancy radiantAI ... that's just a rudimentary simulation of life ... and it uses a LOT of cpu time... multiply that with 20 and you will get what you will need for this project to run
as for how you generate the tiny details...
well .. procedurally of course...
give people a blueprint of a building and select which parts of it can be modified by them (by people i mean npc's)
i did something close to this a while ago.. but no fancy graphics... just a console output log...
tried to implement simple 2d graphics, but i hadn't quite designed it to go with graphics so i should have changed the program architecture to cope... and i got bored...
but the concept was simple.
give people rules and the ability to learn.
i'll see if i can still find the source and if i do i'll upload it... but considering my limited backup skill... think it's been long gone.
edit: if i don't find the source i'll try to find the design document... that's printed so it's gotta be intact.. i hope
Quote:Original post by Overburn
hate to break it to you guys... but...
do a fast mathematical operation and find out how much cpu time this procedural dohickie would use... trust me... you'll need a little more than a quad-core cpu to run this.
You need instant results for this? Why can't this be run in one thread to generate data, and save it for future use?
I believe the majority of AI in Oblivion was scripted and they just were activated at certain times. I think the majority of processor usage in that was down to the geometrys of the landscape and the number of items rendered.
As long as you dont try to simulate it down to the particulate matter, then I dont see that there should be much of a problem.
As long as you dont try to simulate it down to the particulate matter, then I dont see that there should be much of a problem.
I don't know if this is really what you want, but this is what I thought of when I read the "toast" thing.
Suppose that none of the NPC's thought, per se, but only observed. Then they could make choices and "build" based on what they've seen. Of course, this would involve a certain amount of rule making.
Example: The creation of dough comes about because someone's grain got wet. Then the creation of bread comes about because someone left their dough near a source of heat, such as a fire. From there, toast is just a logical procession of leaving your dough near the fire a little to long.
Each of these observations would produce a sort of result for the person/people witnessing it. Suppose that the person who finds the dough decides that it sucks (probably because he has no idea what to do with it). This means he won't "advertise" his idea, and therefore won't teach it to anybody. This means bread may never come to exist and the entire series of events has to repeat with a different observer.
On the other hand, the observer may decide that this could be good with a few outside ingredients. So he adds sugar because it tastes bitter and then leaves it in the heat. Bam, you've got bread. Now he decides the bread is great and starts advertising it, so everyone starts making bread. One person accidentally overcooks there bread, and you've got toast. He decides that its even better than bread, and now your people can make toast too.
Pretty much, I'm describing a system where you describe basic objects (how basic is up to you) and these objects can be manipulated by certain events based on rules that you describe. You could stretch this system so that anybody who finds something is "amazing" will try to make its production into a business. In this way you could build a city.
That was a lot longer than I thought and I don't know if it really makes sense. Either way, that could be a moderately interesting way to go about creating a city or a village, or just some objects.
Suppose that none of the NPC's thought, per se, but only observed. Then they could make choices and "build" based on what they've seen. Of course, this would involve a certain amount of rule making.
Example: The creation of dough comes about because someone's grain got wet. Then the creation of bread comes about because someone left their dough near a source of heat, such as a fire. From there, toast is just a logical procession of leaving your dough near the fire a little to long.
Each of these observations would produce a sort of result for the person/people witnessing it. Suppose that the person who finds the dough decides that it sucks (probably because he has no idea what to do with it). This means he won't "advertise" his idea, and therefore won't teach it to anybody. This means bread may never come to exist and the entire series of events has to repeat with a different observer.
On the other hand, the observer may decide that this could be good with a few outside ingredients. So he adds sugar because it tastes bitter and then leaves it in the heat. Bam, you've got bread. Now he decides the bread is great and starts advertising it, so everyone starts making bread. One person accidentally overcooks there bread, and you've got toast. He decides that its even better than bread, and now your people can make toast too.
Pretty much, I'm describing a system where you describe basic objects (how basic is up to you) and these objects can be manipulated by certain events based on rules that you describe. You could stretch this system so that anybody who finds something is "amazing" will try to make its production into a business. In this way you could build a city.
That was a lot longer than I thought and I don't know if it really makes sense. Either way, that could be a moderately interesting way to go about creating a city or a village, or just some objects.
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