Quote:Original post by Tha_HoodRat The 'killer feature' for regular users is no spyware/viruses.
You do realize that Linux doesn't have some magic nerd field preventing it from getting virii right? You might want to look up the term 'root kit'. Linux does have the advantage that most users don't run as root user (as opposed to Windows) so if you do get a virus you can just delete the user, create a new one and be on your way.
This is my experience in installing 'easy to use' Linux. Couple years ago while in school a lot of teachers were found of us doing things in Linux. Every computer in the lab was Fedora/XP dual boot. I didn't want to waste my time with the lab so I got Fedora Core to install on my computer because the lab computers used Fedora Red Hat. I got it and was installing it and it has a nice GUI interface and I had to do was make a few clicks and it even partitioned my free space to install. Everything was great until I found out my build had no support for 3D accleration, mp3, playing dvds, or TV cards using USB. 3D, mp3, and playing dvds I got around but it involved a new kernel and screwing around with lots of files. TV card never got fixed because there are only drivers for internal cards. Fast forward to today and half the time Fedora won't even finish booting up. Freezes when trying to start up printer support (something I never touched). I figure Core 9 has fixed all these issues but why should I bother with the trouble of installing it again where I might just have the same problems again when I can just use Windows and everything works.
I've used Windows and IE for years and never had a virus. I don't go to shady porn sites and run files like 'porn.exe'. I use Windows for the same reason I use IE7 (when I got FF3 sitting next to IE7 in quick launch), its what I'm used to and it works for what I need it to do. And this is why Linux will never take over. There are to many people like me out there who don't care about all the 'superior' features of Linux. They just want something that works. I think the only OS I've every bought was DOS 6.11. Win 3.11, Win95, Win98, Win2000, WinXP, and Vista Business have been OEM or OEM upgrades. Vista I got free from college. Of which is probably true for most other users out there.
This thread reminds me a lot of the 'why is C++ still overused' thread. People are going to rabidly defend something they have invested a lot of time in. And you can bet that Linux people have invested a *lot* of time in their OS. Nobody wants to think all that time was wasted.
Quote:Original post by greenhybrid blah blah blah, Africa
Have you ever been to Africa?
Not in this life. Why?
Because Oluseyi was born there. (In Nigeria, if memory serves.)
Minor correction: I was born in the US, but I was raised in Nigeria. Spent half my life there, and return frequently. My whole family lives there (mom, dad, sister) and I hope to return home permanently in a few more years.
People always want to tell us what Africa needs - people who've never been there, have no idea what level of infrastructure exists or exactly how technically sophisticated we are or are not. Microsoft, HP... they've had major offices and relationships in Lagos, Nigeria, for over a decade. The XO is a terribly underpowered machine that will do next to nothing to address our IT needs. I should take you to an area in Ikeja where PCs are sold.
Slightly older Windows PCs are more useful in Nigeria. Oh, and Linux was already popular; XO has nothing to do with it.
Now, I can't speak for other African countries - but that's the point. Africa is not a monolith.
Quote:Original post by Mithrandir That's because anyone who is truly innovative isn't going to be dumb enough to give their hard work away for free. They make it and sell it. Open source will always be behind because anyone who could be making money with their creations already is.
Linux or any other Open Source UNIX-like OS won't take over Windows or MacOS X. Why? Because Windows and MacOS X are easy to learn and use. Frankly, I think that Windows sucks, but that's not a point. UNIX is just very different Windows. It's been built by intelligent people for intelligent people. It has a lot of philosophy and hacker wisdom in it. It's simply not easy enough/too powerful for most non-techies in its pure form. Take MacOS X. You have a solid UNIX foundation and an expertly designed user interface + guidelines + toolkit + it's a hip thingie with lots of hype behind it PLUS it's evolution is controlled by a company, so software and hardware companies have a stable target compared to the multitude of GNU + Linux/*BSD + KDE/Gnome/Whatever combinations. Oh, and MacOS X has Textmate. ;) Linux' (or any OpenSource OS) killer application is the network, and it is pretty successful there. I do use FreeBSD+KDE on my desktop, because 1) I want the native UNIX power, 2) I can't afford MacOSX and 3) there's still many opportunities to create desktop killer applications for it.
Quote:Original post by Mithrandir That's because anyone who is truly innovative isn't going to be dumb enough to give their hard work away for free. They make it and sell it. Open source will always be behind because anyone who could be making money with their creations already is.
There are people paid for developing open source.
Mostly to maintain "boring" stuff. Name a really sexy open source app that people are being paid to write that isn't a copy of a Windows or OS X feature or app.
One thing that bugs me is the constant repeat of "Linux is free". It's been my experience that there's no such thing as free. Yes, you can download Linux for no financial charge, but that doesn't make it free imho. Where do I get my support? What time investment do I need to make for the learning curve? Etc.
Sorry, but when my computer's OS breaks down at 3 am in the morning, and I have something crucial I need to send off in email, I want a professional to answer my question, not some Geek Squad Teenager who probably knows as much about the OS as they do about fixing my TV. In a way, it's like learning about Computer Science. GameDev is an awesome website for learning about software development, and getting questions answered, and it's free. But that doesn't mean all the responses are correct, and that it's the best way to learn. I'd rather pay the money to go to a University where the course work is standardized.
And what about accountability? When I purchase Windows, and my OS goes beserk, causing the deaths of multiple people, or causes my company to lose millions of dollars, I sue Microsoft. Yes, there are companies which will take over support for an implementation on Linux, and take responsibility, but that's for their implementation, and not Linux as a whole.
And please don't bring about command line commands like sudo or emacs as making things better. Better is a relative term, and if I have to magically know about something it's not better. When I open up my WYSIWYG editor, I know what I'm getting. When I click on File->Save, I know what I'm doing, unlike C-X, C-S. Don't get me started on commands which require more than one key stroke.
Besides, to your typical average user, Windows is free. Yes, it costs money, but how many of you actually bought Windows outside of what came on your computer? Then, how many of you who didn't build your PC actually bought Windows outside of what came on your computer? When I purchase a computer, I'm not thinking, "Well, my case cost $300, my CPU cost $450, my OS cost $300, etc", I'm thinking "My computer cost $2000", and I have an OS.
Quote:Original post by Nytegard One thing that bugs me is the constant repeat of "Linux is free". It's been my experience that there's no such thing as free. Yes, you can download Linux for no financial charge, but that doesn't make it free imho. Where do I get my support? What time investment do I need to make for the learning curve? Etc.
That is true, there is always opportunity cost involved with learning new tools, but keep in mind that you paid that for Windows as well. And most of that carries over to all operating systems. The differences are not *that* great that you will need to spend weeks in a training session or something.
Quote:Original post by Nytegard Sorry, but when my computer's OS breaks down at 3 am in the morning, and I have something crucial I need to send off in email, I want a professional to answer my question, not some Geek Squad Teenager who probably knows as much about the OS as they do about fixing my TV.
Instead you will be on hold for a few hours to speak to technicians in a foreign country reading off a script. Good luck with that.
Quote:Original post by Nytegard And what about accountability? When I purchase Windows, and my OS goes beserk, causing the deaths of multiple people, or causes my company to lose millions of dollars, I sue Microsoft. Yes, there are companies which will take over support for an implementation on Linux, and take responsibility, but that's for their implementation, and not Linux as a whole.
You can't sue Microsoft even if its software goes berserk:
Quote:Vista EULA You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
This limitation applies to * anything related to the software, services, content (including code) on third party Internet sites, or third party programs; and * claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.
It also applies even if * repair, replacement or a refund for the software does not fully compensate you for any losses; or * Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of the damages.
Quote:Original post by Nytegard And please don't bring about command line commands like sudo or emacs as making things better. Better is a relative term, and if I have to magically know about something it's not better. When I open up my WYSIWYG editor, I know what I'm getting. When I click on File->Save, I know what I'm doing, unlike C-X, C-S. Don't get me started on commands which require more than one key stroke.
Emacs is not even installed by default with most major distributions. If you have tried a modern distro like Fedora or Ubuntu, you'd see that the default programs included follow the standard conventions of File->Save, Crtl-C to copy Alt-F4 to quit and everything else. Yes you can install ugly and bizarre programs like Emacs, but you can install those on Windows too.
I would guess that at least 75% of users would be satisfied with any of the major operating systems. I believe Linux is more than ready for them, but, on the other hand, they have no real reason to leave Windows.
Quote:Original post by Simian Man You can't sue Microsoft even if its software goes berserk:
Quote:Vista EULA You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
This limitation applies to * anything related to the software, services, content (including code) on third party Internet sites, or third party programs; and * claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.
It also applies even if * repair, replacement or a refund for the software does not fully compensate you for any losses; or * Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of the damages.
While this might be true for end users in terms of a consumer, when it comes to certain businesses, I can guarantee you this is not their EULA. For certain businesses, when crucial data is on the line, there are other EULA's that are created and used. Not that Armageddon has happened mind you, but there are certain times when knowing you can acquire accountability from a company who sells a product means a lot more than the overall price of the software.
Ah yes, the other flaw with linux; 1001 ways to do one thing.
No, this is not a Good Thing(tm).
Why is this "not a Good Thing(tm)"?
Yea I also wonder this, as for things like 3D graphics on Vista I have the choice between using OpenGL, Direct 3D 9L, or Direct 3D 10, whereas on Linux I lose 2/3 of these choices.
Windows offering me the most choices in how I can do things is why it's my primary OS.
Choice of API is a different matter. For such a basic necessity of an OS (installing/uninstalling app), there are too many options to choose from -- there should only be one. When a new user just installed their OS, she should be able to perform basic needs that OS should provide. If she wants to install or uninstall an application, she should be able to do it immediately without extra prompts. Linux should make up its mind which one to use, rather than giving multiple options to the user before they can do anything.
I use Ubuntu and Vista x64 on my desktop. There are pros and cons for both but the general consumer would hate linux.
I will say there are some nice things about ubuntu. First: Synaptic Package Manager. This thing is awesome.... if it has the packages you want. That's sometimes a big if and have to end up compiling things myself.
What I do like about Synaptic though is it's the single point of update for ALL of your applications. OpenOffice has an update? It shows up in synaptic. The video drivers you installed with EnvyNG... when nVidia releases a new driver it shows up in synaptic. There's nothing like having all your application updates in one place.
I also prefer Amarok > * for music players. So, hilariously, I often boot into linux when I want to play music!
