And that's just it. A tenant of my faith is that we claim the privilege of worshiping according to our own conscience, that EVERYONE has that privilege, they can worship how, what, or where they want, or not at all if that is their choice. Another tenant is that we accept that we don't have all truth, and that we get more truth and knowledge every day, and we'll accept truth -- not blindly, but with each person's own convictions -- wherever that truth will lead.
It is troubling to watch people who demand that if you are not part of their religion you are going to hell. That whoever they are, they somehow hold a monopoly on all things that are true, and there can be no truths except whatever they believe. That there is no allowance for others to have truths, or there is no allowance for additional truth and knowledge. I can accept that it is their belief, and if they don't want to change I'm not going to try to change them. I can accept them for who they are, and we can be friends and get along.
That's my biggest reason for not wanting to discuss religion on forums. There are too many people who refuse to get along, who take offense at sharing of ideas that are different rather than accepting that everyone can believe whatever they want and it is okay for people to believe different things.
We can have totally different beliefs, I can have my beliefs that I call Christian, someone else can have their beliefs that they call Christian, someone else can be Muslim, another Jewish, another may worship tree frogs, another may worship sheep, another may worship the universe generally, another may have faith only in science. If each is happy in their beliefs and it brings them comfort and makes them better people, then it is wonderful to me. No matter our beliefs, we can all work on games since that is our common interests.
I left a cult.
Re "Cult" as a derogatory term -- lots of religions end up with situations where people find themselves in a situation within their local community where they become trapped within the religion because of the social consequences of leaving (being shunned, or even attacked by family/friends/neighbours)... At that point, even a religion that seems reasonable on a large scale, has arguably become a cult in this small community...
Heath, the majority of the members here are atheists.
I believe that is false. Many people, including me, are strongly religious. Since the site's membership is quite diverse, and statistically most people in the world are religious (about 85%), it stands to reason a similar percent have religious beliefs.
I'd actually be interested in the stats :)
In Europe, belief in a God is more like 50/50, and in some parts it's as low as 15%.
In my experience, non-religiousness tends to be more common in the tech fields than in the general population, so I live in an echo chamber where atheism/agnosticism are the "normal" default, and organised religion is a minority. Given that situation, it's very easy to assume that the majority of the world is also agnostic, regardless of the truth of things...
It is troubling to watch people who demand that if you are not part of their religion you are going to hell. That whoever they are, they somehow hold a monopoly on all things that are true, and there can be no truths except whatever they believe. That there is no allowance for others to have truths, or there is no allowance for additional truth and knowledge. .... That's my biggest reason for not wanting to discuss religion on forums. There are too many people who refuse to get along, who take offense at sharing of ideas that are different rather than accepting that everyone can believe whatever they want and it is okay for people to believe different things.
That's pretty much key to getting along. If you can't accept that spiritual truth is personal, then there's no way you can get along with other spiritualities...
I personally like to believe in a superposition of religions - that they're all simultaneously true and rediculous at the same time :D I don't know how people can just pick one God out of thousands and say that <thousands-minus-one> are definitely bullshit and wrong 100% of the time for everyone.
Why is my post gone?
Because it was vitriolic and hateful. If you are an atheist, fine. There is a fine line between disagreeing with something and attacking that thing. You crossed that line.
Re "Cult" as a derogatory term -- lots of religions end up with situations where people find themselves in a situation within their local community where they become trapped within the religion because of the social consequences of leaving (being shunned, or even attacked by family/friends/neighbours)... At that point, even a religion that seems reasonable on a large scale, has arguably become a cult in this small community...
There are two definitions of "cult". One is used by pretty much everyone outside of religious circles and some within and is rather complicated. By this definition, neither JW or Mormons are cults. The definition used by those within religious circles, especially Christianity, defines a cult as a sect that has deviated far from scripture and is heretical. By this standard, the entirety of Jehovah's Witness theology and the book of Mormon and the teachings of Joseph Smith classify both as cults.
Reference: https://gotquestions.org/sect-cult.html
I'd actually be interested in the stats :)
In Europe, belief in a God is more like 50/50, and in some parts it's as low as 15%.
In my experience, non-religiousness tends to be more common in the tech fields than in the general population, so I live in an echo chamber where atheism/agnosticism are the "normal" default, and organised religion is a minority. Given that situation, it's very easy to assume that the majority of the world is also agnostic, regardless of the truth of things...
I may be wrong, but from what I have seen of religious threads here, the atheists are FAR more vocal and literally unopposed. I guess those of us of faith need to start being more vocal.
It is a core teaching of Christianity that there is one true God and one path to Him. We can delve into this deeper at some other time, but I believe that there is only one path. John 14:6 - "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."That's pretty much key to getting along. If you can't accept that spiritual truth is personal, then there's no way you can get along with other spiritualities...
I personally like to believe in a superposition of religions - that they're all simultaneously true and rediculous at the same time :D I don't know how people can just pick one God out of thousands and say that <thousands-minus-one> are definitely bullshit and wrong 100% of the time for everyone.
That being said, I can believe this and have friends that do not. My best friend is a pagan and practicing witch. I strongly oppose her religious beliefs, and she knows it, but I LOVE her! We have the utmost respect for one anther, in spite of our differences. All I can do is love her and pray for her.
I don't know how people can just pick one God out of thousands and say that <thousands-minus-one> are definitely bullshit and wrong 100% of the time for everyone.
Because from their(Christians, Muslims ...) point of view there can only be ONE creator of all things, the rest were created. Once you accommodate other gods, your God is relegated to a 'god'. Because the meaning of God is the creator of all creations, creator of all things, who has no beginning, no end, omnipotent and omnipresence. There is room for only one of that personalty.
Agree, although I wouldn't go as far as saying "did a disservice". He didn't do much, neither good nor bad. Constantine was, in my opinion, a half-assed opportunistic Christian at best, which is funny for someone whos name means "steadfast". His counsellor Ossius (who lived a remarkably long life) arguably influenced him onto the Christian path.This is something theologians talk about alot. Constantine essentially did Christianity a disservice, because it made it into a social club rather than a lifestyle - i.e. it rewarded Christians with social status and economic opportunities, so everyone became superficially 'Christian'
Constantine did not really much "promote" Christianity, although he did stop feeding Christians to the lions, and later he gave them benefits on tax, but he worshipped at least two other gods during his lifetime (two that I know of, who knows how many) and left the traditional system in place. His newly-built capital had temples for the ancient gods as well. He had himself baptized before his death "just to be sure" (in case his counsellor was right about eternal life). Oh well, whatever.
Now, Pippin (the father of Charlemagne) as well as his son, then later Otto II and Otto III (whom the Christians murdered) are a different story.
Pippin, in some idea of getting "divine support" if the pope blessed him, loosely promised to give some lands to the Christians if he could conquer the Langobards. Or something. Pippin was not well-known to stand by his word, and he did not. The Christians came up with an obviously counterfeit confession of Constantine (which contradicted well-known historic facts) together with an equally counterfeit deed of gift for what is today the Vatican State. Pippin said nothing.
For Charlemagne, who wanted to be Emperor and who actively used Christianity to his advantage in conquering Saxony and Lombardy, the little detail that it was a counterfeit deed was no issue. On the contray, he did everything to strengthen the church (Charlemagne was not precisely the one to fall under the category "He who is free of guilt" anyway!). To Otto II it wasn't an issue either, and Otto III died of "sudden fever" at age 22, shortly after having disputed the document's authenticy. At least, that's what the bishops (who were around when it happened, and who kept his death secret for a week, so all evidence of poison would have gone) said. About 20 years later, bishop "Meinwerk" (probably Bernhard of Paderborn), admitted the poisoning in his vita.
400 years later, at the time of Friedrich III, undeniable evidence was found that the deed was counterfeit, but who cares. Friedrich surely didn't. Even today, another 600 years later, nobody does.
These (and Black Death) are the people and events that brought Christianity forward, not Constantine.
There are two definitions of "cult". One is used by pretty much everyone outside of religious circles and some within and is rather complicated. By this definition, neither JW or Mormons are cults. The definition used by those within religious circles, especially Christianity, defines a cult as a sect that has deviated far from scripture and is heretical. By this standard, the entirety of Jehovah's Witness theology and the book of Mormon and the teachings of Joseph Smith classify both as cults.
That's one of the reasons why it's better, in my opinion, not to define a cult on what their religious beliefs are, but on the organisational and operational structure of the group, and the way in which they interact with the wider community.
That being said, I can believe this and have friends that do not. My best friend is a pagan and practicing witch. I strongly oppose her religious beliefs, and she knows it, but I LOVE her! We have the utmost respect for one anther, in spite of our differences. All I can do is love her and pray for her.
Exodus 22:18
You should not let a sorceress live.
I can see that how that verse** can lead to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials
The Salem witch trials were a series of hearings and prosecutions of people accused of witchcraft in colonial Massachusetts between February 1692 and May 1693. The trials resulted in the executions of twenty people, fourteen of them women, and all but one by hanging. Five others (including two infant children) died in prison.
** For those of us, in the modern age, witches in the OT were considered intermediaries for entities other than God. In other interpretations, witches were aligned with the devil. Therefore, they led the Hebrews astray and from God.
I'm glad Heath has found some inner peace. And the rest of this conversation, clearly has gone offtopic, but not off the rails.
So as an attempt to stay ontopic, has anyone else left a religion because of a bad experience, unresolvable contradiction, or just outright repression?
So as an attempt to stay ontopic, has anyone else left a religion because of a bad experience, unresolvable contradiction, or just outright repression?
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