I left a cult.

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55 comments, last by ferrous 7 years, 4 months ago
Heath, the majority of the members here are atheists. Coming here about a religious issue and expecting much, if any, support is like Hillary walking into the Republican national headquarters looking for comfort. There are a very few Christians, myself and Servant being two, as well as a smattering of other faiths, but you're not going to get a very good response on this site.
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As said in my previous post, even though my view is modified a lot I'm not entirely an atheist , So my point of view right now tends to be "Neutral Centric" (whatever that means)

Has anyone here left Scientology?

Scientology, Mormon, Jehovah Witnesses, white garment churches (many based in Africa) .... all these religions are on the fringes and hence seen or described as cults. But it has to do with "the point of view". Consider the following (for simplicity western POV considered here):

If Roman Emperor Constantine the Great had not converted to Christianity and made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, Christianity would have remained on the fringes, and all their practices regarded as a cultist. Who knows may be paganism, Agnosticism or even Islam might have dominated the western world. And the POV from the dominant religion would often snare at Christians - eewwww, those weirdo people with strange practices

At a different level, even within Christianity if the evangelicals hadn't dominated the western world, it could have been anyone of the so called pseudo-christian religions that would have dominated and the same would have said of the now evangelical Christians on the fringes

However the most interesting thought process was imagining the reversal - If Islam had dominated the new world and the west in general and Christianity had remained on the fringes in the middle-east and North Africa. These scenarios are not far fetched because there were not depended on this generation, but on how history played out

For this reasons my conclusion is think like a neutral and you would see things more objectively.

@Heath (don't take this too seriously) listed a few reasons why he felt JW is a cult, but there are countless controversial stuff that evangelicals do that are regarded as mere acts of overzealous-ness so are then either forgiven or hushed under the carpet.

can't help being grumpy...

Just need to let some steam out, so my head doesn't explode...

Heath, the majority of the members here are atheists. Coming here about a religious issue and expecting much, if any, support is like Hillary walking into the Republican national headquarters looking for comfort. There are a very few Christians, myself and Servant being two, as well as a smattering of other faiths, but you're not going to get a very good response on this site.


The response so far seems to be very welcoming and not overtly anti-religious (apart from one person making jabs).

Servant, I have my wife, my coworkers, my sister who also left, and online communities at this point. I think I'll be fine overall [...]


That's excellent to hear! :)

If Roman Emperor Constantine the Great had not converted to Christianity and made Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, Christianity would have remained on the fringes

This is something theologians talk about alot. Constantine essentially did Christianity a disservice, because it made it into a social club rather than a lifestyle - i.e. it rewarded Christians with social status and economic opportunities, so everyone became superficially 'Christian', instead of becoming Christian due to being convinced about Christianity. Christianity would still be very large without it, though - just look at China's Christian population from half a million to nearly a 100 million in the past 50 years - Christians outnumber Communist Party Members in China, despite (and also, because) the government trying to stamp it out early on. You can't easily be a superficial believer in Christianity when your life is on the line if you join.

The response so far seems to be very welcoming and not overtly anti-religious (apart from one person making jabs).


My dad is an atheist. While this thread has been civil, I know from experience that it will not remain so. The conversation will ultimately turn anti-theistic/anti-religious.

If he wants support, he can PM me.
Heath, the majority of the members here are atheists.

I believe that is false. Many people, including me, are strongly religious. Since the site's membership is quite diverse, and statistically most people in the world are religious (about 85%), it stands to reason a similar percent have religious beliefs.


However, this discussion board is about game development.

As a board for game development, the posting guidelines are fairly strict about flame wars and discussions regarding religion... except perhaps the few "religious debates" about code style and preferred editors. The specific rule is:

Do not start a topic that condones illegal activities or activities that tend to incite flame wars, such as: drug use, killing, warez, theft, race, nationality, sex, and religion.

This topic was borderline to begin with, but was posted in the lounge and so far has remained civil so the mod team has left it open.

While this thread has been civil, I know from experience that it will not remain so. The conversation will ultimately turn anti-theistic/anti-religious.

Over the years there have been some occasional threads regarding religion. About a decade ago there was an active thread that went on about 25 pages with different people sharing their beliefs in a constructive way. It doesn't need to turn ugly, and history shows they have the potential to be constructive.

But you are right, normally they start out well enough, then conversation turns to personal attacks or attacks against someone's deeply-held beliefs rather than stating what they believe personally, and the threads get closed. Sometimes people stick with their own beliefs, people constructively discuss what their religion offers them and how it improves their life personally, and all works out.

On trying to be supportive, while your religious affiliation didn't work for you, that doesn't necessarily make it a cult, nor does it mean that people who attend the specific church are cultists. Everyone is different, each with their own beliefs and reasons for their actions. No matter the religion there are people who are in it for bad reasons, people looking for power and other people who only want a social club. There are also many people who are there to make their lives better.

For me, it means in addition to church services (three hours a week) and church group activities (about two hours each week) I engage in service to others (about 3-5 hours each week) and give significant cash donations to help both the church and the poor and needy (about 15% of my income in aggregate). The service varies based on needs, often helping with people moving in or move out of the neighborhood (last week we had about 20 people for 90 minutes to help load a moving van, and about 10 people help another family move in), help with old people or struggling families in yard cleanup or seasonal yardwork, my wife often helps by preparing meals for people who have been in hospitals or had children or whatever. I've also been the recipient of service on several occasions, and I've received church welfare assistance every time I've lost my job and a few times that I've had other struggles. A strong teaching is that faith without works is dead; if you cannot serve and support and uplift others, helping out with people's needs as best you are able, then your faith is in vain. Regarding the social club comments, people have social needs, so having a social aspect is not an issue. It is foolish for a person to expect to be saved when they themselves are unwilling to help save others they have means to help. Even if the help you can give is to pay someone a visit and have a friendly chat, that's something.

An interesting side effect of the big religion known by several slang and popular names, it often shows up more than once when people report who helped at disasters. For example, after hurricane Katrina devastated Louisiana the state put out lists of the religious groups who made the biggest cleanup contributions. The religion was named both as the #1 and the #2 biggest contributor, plus multiple times much farther down the list, each under different popular names of the church.

My religion has already been mentioned once in this thread as being "not Christian", yet Christ is the center of the beliefs. We are saved by Christ's atonement, after all we can do. No unclean thing can dwell with God, and so it is our responsibility to better ourselves and help others as best we can. When it comes time to meet with God and Christ face to face, a terrifying thought is to ask "How much pain and suffering was my fault?" I want that to be as little as possible. As a religion, we want everyone to live with God again, and preach repentance, and also to follow Christ's teachings as they are recorded in scripture. He taught to be humble, to mourn with those who mourn, to serve those around you including those who hate you or cheat you or use you, and that when you are in the service of others you are in the service of God.

As called out from my note about the Oatmeal comic earlier, I share their statement that if a religion encourages you to do good, to be better, to hope for better things, to better endure life, and to improve your life or the lives of others, then it is a great thing. If you are in a religion that hurts others, condemns others, causes problems, spreads hate, or even encourages you to kill others for their beliefs, then that is religious beliefs gone wrong.

As far as Christian denominations go, neither Jehovah's Witnesses nor Mormons are considered 'Christian' by the general body of theologians (whether Protestant, Orthodox, or Catholic), because their beliefs directly contradict scripture on one or more key issues

My religion has already been mentioned once in this thread as being "not Christian", yet Christ is the center of the beliefs.

Shots fired.

"I AM ZE EMPRAH OPENGL 3.3 THE CORE, I DEMAND FROM THEE ZE SHADERZ AND MATRIXEZ"

My journals: dustArtemis ECS framework and Making a Terrain Generator

Feel free to lock it, frob. It's alright with me.

For what it's worth, I too used to be a fundamentalist christian. I generally thought that "of course my view is correct! I only hold correct views, so everyone who disagrees with me must be flawed in some small way, and all I have to do to enlighten them is find that flaw in their reasoning and they will realize the error of their ways!". There used to be a lot more religious debates and arguments on this site, and I was once one of the defenders of my fundamentalist christian viewpoint. One day, I started entertaining the opposite viewpoint to see if I could understand their perspective. And then, I realized just how much more defensible their position was, and how anything I said could easily be countered, whereas I would struggle to come up with reasonably defensible counter arguments. ...Could it be possible that *I* am holding an incorrect view point?! Absurd! I'm never wrong!! Well, it took me a few years to slowly come around, but come around I did. One of the hardest things I've done was reject my fundamentalist evangelical christian faith and all that came with it (friends, family, social structure, belief system, etc). But, I'm far better off now, and I can only thank the random internet strangers who had the patience to deal with people like me :)

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