quote:Original post by sunandshadow

1. Appeal of a wounded character

2. Dominant and submissive types more popular than average types

3. Egotism as aphrodesiac

4. Good With Children, or otherwise nurturing, like being a nurse

5. Golden Blood

So I still want to know, are these things attractive to a male audience too, or only a female one?

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
1. Appeal of a wounded character

Yeah, definitely. I call it the "Knight in shining armour syndrome". Whereas, upon seeing a damzel in distress, I feel I have to rescue her... I guess I am a romantic after all ?

quote:
2. Dominant and submissive types more popular than average types

Mmmh, kinda, but in my case it''s more to do with someone that can think by themselves. Nonetheless I agree with the point.

quote:
3. Egotism as aphrodesiac

Mmmh... the Indiana Jones touch, you mean ? Yeah, definitely. I guess it''s part of the French charm that people seem to think we have, and it''s quite true that people react to it either very well or very bad.

quote:
4. Good With Children, or otherwise nurturing, like being a nurse

Like I said, you look for a father/mother figure, so I guess this is a definite yes.

quote:
5. Golden Blood

Is exotism a turn on ? You bet it is


Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

Aside from my name, I tend to be quite serious.

This is a touchy and shifty subject. Are you trying to create charecters for a dating sim or a more plot-based game? If its a dating sim, me, an 11-year-old, cannot offer help.
However, with the second option, you don''t need to worry so much. Create a personality that would appeal to their lover. Thats one of two things: opposite or shared interests. That seems pretty simple.

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
I sympathize with anyone who is very intelligent and driven to sarcasm and irony by the fact that they are surrounded with idiots.

wanna mary me? nah just kidding... misfortunatly im male
(damn hard to find sarcastic women who are rationalists out there btw)

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
(This doesn't apply to here on gamedev of course )

talking about sarcasm :D


@topic:

for an example lets take FFX (final fantasy) where the main female character is of course falling in love with the main male character(who'd expect anything else #] )... but actually i felt more atracted by one side character (lulu) wich was a much stronger person (and looked IMO way better).

so its hard to make a char for EVRY1 to fall in love with...
perhaps in the future they might be computergenerated chars matching ones likes and dislikes... but not nowadays

[edit1]
to add some niveau:

-EVERYTHING is defined by the input we get(eyes, ears, ..., thoughts)
-if the input is right we fall in love with some person
(i dont want to explain what a person REALLY is... this would fill pages to explain but the words 'idea of a person' actually fit it very well)
-interaction is not really necessary (but makes it better)

=>
-one CAN fall into love with some VR person if she/he just is realistic enough(=considered as a person).
-falling in love is not pathetic (in most cases :lol

=>
-falling in love with some crafted personality is NOT pathetic

[edited by - BB-Pest on December 2, 2002 1:44:13 PM]

[edited by - BB-Pest on December 2, 2002 1:45:15 PM]

quote:Original post by phreakibird
Aside from my name, I tend to be quite serious.

This is a touchy and shifty subject. Are you trying to create charecters for a dating sim or a more plot-based game? If its a dating sim, me, an 11-year-old, cannot offer help.
However, with the second option, you don''t need to worry so much. Create a personality that would appeal to their lover. Thats one of two things: opposite or shared interests. That seems pretty simple.

Hi If you write seriously people will take you seriously here, no matter how old you are. GameDev is cool like that.

Anyway, I agree that as an 11 year old you probably can''t help much with this particular issue - that''s ok, we all do what we can and have our own areas of usefulness. I''m not making a particular game at the moment because I''m making a graphic novel, but the graphic novel is a romance, so I suppose it''s the equivalent to a dating sim. Anything I learn here should be applicable to any games I make later though. And I can certainly stand to learn more about this subject - it is indeed, as you say, "touchy and shifty".

quote:Original post by BB-Pest
Original post by sunandshadow
I sympathize with anyone who is very intelligent and driven to sarcasm and irony by the fact that they are surrounded with idiots.

wanna mary me? nah just kidding... misfortunatly im male
(damn hard to find sarcastic women who are rationalists out there btw)

? I'm a girl you know I'm not particularly sarcastic myself though, too much of an optimist to be, I just like people who are. My own sense of humor runs more to the ironic and the incongrous. But yeah, I agree that women who are sarcastic rationalists are rare. I think only one of my female friends has ever fit that description, whereas about 10 of my male friends have.

quote:
so its hard to make a char for EVRY1 to fall in love with...
perhaps in the future they might be computergenerated chars matching ones likes and dislikes... but not nowadays

Ah, see, this is an idea I've been playing with for years. Why not nowadays? What technological advance would make this any easier? My feeling is that, while the implementation would be a nightmare, we do currently have the technology to generate realistic customized characters. And I think we (the community of computer game theorists) might as well work on the problem now because it's not going to get any easier. One thing that I'm hoping the results of this thread will do is establish categories and boundaries for what character types would be worth implementing because they appeal to a definite part of the audience.

The more I learn about personality theory and evolutionary psychology, the more I start to see how one could create a program that would realistically emulate a person. (I'm talking here primarily about the verbal aspect, other things like giving a game character natural body language are a whole other ball of wax.) I tried sketching out an implementation plan about two years ago (with bishop_pass, another gamedev member) and realized I didn't have all the pieces yet, and I still don't, but I keep finding more in random places, and I hope the idea will come clear eventually.



But back to the topic at hand - What personality type of female character do you all think would have the most fans among a typical male gaming audience? What would be second most popular?

[edited by - sunandshadow on December 2, 2002 2:41:24 PM]

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
But back to the topic at hand - What personality type of female character do you all think would have the most fans among a typical male gaming audience? What would be second most popular?

[edited by - sunandshadow on December 2, 2002 2:41:24 PM]

call for sarcasm again ...

since im not the typical man i'd be unable to answer this question. but my perfect girld 'd be (in order of importance):

-intelligent (like i am)... im not speaking of winning the million dollars in who wants to be a millionary... thats no real int. just learning things... every1 can do... even computers
the int i want is more a mathematical one.

-interested in philosophy (like i am)

-strong personality, self confident (like i am... in some situations )

-applying the int to everydays live and personal relations

-looking f00kin' sexy of course (like i am )

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
I think only one of my female friends has ever fit that description, whereas about 10 of my male friends have.

damn, just what i encountered... do i have to get gay?

[edit1]

quote:Original post by sunandshadow
Ah, see, this is an idea I've been playing with for years. Why not nowadays? What technological advance would make this any easier?

hehe... u're thinking to materialistic... i included the science research as well.

concerning the verbal aspect:

crafting a character only on a verbal base, even though very complicated, would be possible nowadays... but not a deep/realistic one. it'd have to base on a lot of preset stuff/phrases.
a maths professor i know who worked on researches about the structure of language told me that the guys he worked with have large respect for language. its not just the grammatical structure but mutch emotional/implicit content as well that all needs to be make usefull in a mathematical way.
(but perhaps ur knowledge is greater then mine ... im actually very interested in the stuff u did research on)

[edited by - BB-Pest on December 2, 2002 3:53:03 PM]

quote:Original post by BB-Pest

-intelligent (like i am)... im not speaking of winning the million dollars in who wants to be a millionary... thats no real int. just learning things... every1 can do... even computers
the int i want is more a mathematical one.

Now that''s an interesting statement. For me it would be just the opposite, the person must be very intelligent but I mean a verbal intelligence, I don''t really care about a mathematical one. I wonder if it''s that I as a writer and an english major want someone who matches me, or whether it''s more that the type of intelligence that''s rarer among each gender is more valued.

quote:
damn, just what i encountered... do i have to get gay?

That probably wouldn''t work either; according to my readings sarcasm is correlated with high testosterone levels (among both men and women) and high testosterone males are more often straight than low and medium testosterone level males.


I replied to your question about simulating characters in a different thread because I didn''t want to dreail this one.

I think this discussion has wandered off topic a bit. We were discussing personality traits that might encourage players to fall in love with the characters that display these traits.

In my intro to psychology book (part of a liberal arts requirement I''m finishing up before I get my BA in CS) theres a few pages on love and on one of them we have John Alan Lee''s 6 categories of love:
Eros - Romance/Passion
Ludus - Game-Playing
Storge - Affection
Pragma - Logical
Mania - Possesive/Dependant
Agape - Unselfish

And then we have Robert Sternberg''s Love traingle, with the vertices being Passion, Intimacy, and Commitment.

Anyways, to make a character we ''love'', it''d be a good idea to look at these models and combine a few things. For example, we''ve been discussing ideals here, which makes us all fall into the Pragma category. Love Simulations play on Ludus. Domestic Abuse uses Mania. Eros is what you see on HBO after hours.

With all that said, can anybody tell me what kind of character we see as the lead female in the final fantasy series after 7?

-> Will Bubel
-> Machine wash cold, tumble dry.

"-intelligent (like i am)... "
Anybody who claims they are intelligent, probably isn''t...
I''m not saying you aren''t intelligent, but just a little bit of advice for future reference.

Im going to raise some points here, and Im really sorry if anyone is offended, but this is what I think:

The average woman seems to lack the confidence the the average man does. Most women seem to have a poorer self image than most men. This is why (i believe) alot of girls are caught up in clothing and makeup.

When it comes down to it, most women just don''t feel safe or secure. This is why most women are attracted to stong men who are taller than them. They need a man they can snuggle into (i.e, feel mentally safe), to protect them when they are walking down the street, and to basically just look out for them. This is why women always want to drive SUV''s and family-trucks.
I think alot of that is sub-concious in a SOME girls mind''s, and she''s does even realize it. I find that women seem to be a bit more nicer to people (i.e, afraid to hurt another''s feelings), that men, I think that can also be explained by what im saying.

Most men on the other hand seem to be more condifent with themselves. I probably sound like I think women suck, but that is NOT TRUE AT ALL. Men are looking for a (oh god I can feel the huge flames coming already, but lack of a better word) .. pet? .. in a girl. Now I know I must sound like a hardcore wife-beater, but I DO NOT MEAN a "pet" in the sense that men want to own our girlfriends/wives, but we (well most of us) want a girlfriend for similar reasons we would want a pet (that must sound hugely funny to the dudes that only want women for sex . Most of us would want a pet to keep us company, to love us, and to be there for us when we are sad. There are obviously more reasons why a man needs a woman, but that is good for starters.

Why is my perfect girl?
Well my perfect girl is my ex-girlfriend (sadly)
I will just have to find her again.
They say you marry your mother (those reading this from alabama or wainfleet, don''t get excited), which I definitely agree with.

My perfect girl can''t be materialistic. To say the least, I hate it when girls wear make-up. Alot of them use it as a mask to hide behind, which is very phony. I''m all about the natural beauty
She can''t be a ditz, which is something alot of guys don''t like. Ditzy girls are *friggen* annoying.
She can''t be the type that "consults her friends" before she does something with you. If she doesn''t know if she wants to do something, she should bring it to MY attention. Relationships are about the 2 people in them, not the 2 people + their respective circles of friends (thus the reason high-school relationships rarely workout)
She can''t be a huge feminist either. I realize girls want to be treated fairly, but most girls who are "feminists" put on a phony image that they are secure and safe, and VERY self sufficient, but in reality, are completely the opposite.



What she does have to be is basically the same thing every other guy is looking for. Someone who is loving, kind, intelligent, has a sense of humor, somewhat cute or pretty, etc, however, all those things are secondary. What is really important is what the two of us have been through together, and the good times that we''ve shared. Thats how you come to truely love somebody.

PLEASE don''t flame about any of those statements a made, they are all just what i''ve observed! I''m not a wife beater, and I treat women properly, and I''m not a male dominator!

My 2 cents.